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Author Topic: What the #### is it with the 1Ds  (Read 2891 times)

Jonathan Wienke

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What the #### is it with the 1Ds
« on: July 20, 2005, 09:25:55 pm »

First of all, what are you doing for monitor calibration? If you're just hand-tweaking your monitor to match someone's printer, that's most likely the problem right there. NEVER hand-tweak your monitor to match someone else's printer. It's pretty much guaranteed to be a complete waste of time and can cause issues like this. Calibrate your monitor with a good hardware device; and if the lab can't match your screen, take your business elsewhere. But never tweak a calibrated monitor to match an uncalibrated lab. That's futile.

Post a RAW file (or email it to ) and I'll be able to tell for sure if its a problem with the camera or not.
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Ben Rubinstein

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What the #### is it with the 1Ds
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2005, 10:36:33 am »

Okay, I think i have a handle on the problem. Firstly the red 'staining' I'm seeing on the black suits is both noise and also moire (the 10D wasn't resolving enough individual thread detail to produce this much moire!) which is why it it sometimes painfully apparent even at iso 100. It also explains why sheer black material, such as in a dress is much less affected while suits, especially with pin stripes, or with a two tone pattern suffer horribly.

ACR smooths both the moire and the noise with it's 'color noise reduction' tool so that instead on red dots (noise) and red swirls and lines (moire), I'm getting a red staining over parts of the black, specifically the darker areas.

Once ACR has established this stain then even darkening the blacks, either with the shadows or contrast slider, does not eliminate the red, but just darkens it.

I'm in the middle of playing with a couple of sample images, to see whether noise programs can remove instead of smudging the colour noise, so that I can leave the 'color noise reduction' off in ACR and apply a noise plug-in as part of the workflow in an action.

Other than that, I've noticed that DPP accentuates the problem less in the first place, If they had an ACR like interface so batching hundreds of RAW files at a time wasn't such a daunting prospect then I would use it.

I remember Michael in his original preview of the 1Ds noting the moire and mentioning that it would drive fashion photographers mad (I least I think that's what he wrote), I guess this is the same thing.

If anyone has any suggestions or has come across this problem then please let me know.
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Ben Rubinstein

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What the #### is it with the 1Ds
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2005, 12:25:34 pm »

I found -4 to give the best result, Jonathan, you are the man. That said the problem I mentioned of the noise smudging into a red stain is still apparent, I'll send you another test shot.
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Ben Rubinstein

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What the #### is it with the 1Ds
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2005, 05:07:02 pm »

I've been using my 1Ds for a couple of months, one shoot in Iceland, 6 weddings, countless small jobs. As the frontier prints pretty dark, I've had to wind the brightness on my screen down to match and by definition lighten the pictures. That said with the matching to print and regular calibration i think that the screen is pretty much 'right'

I have a serious problem with the blacks when shooting with the 1Ds. Even properly exposed blacks, or even overexposed, at all iso's but disturbingly apparent even at 100 iso, show red noise. With the 'colour noise reduction' set at a default '25' in ACR the noise softens and flattens giving me a reddish/maroon hue throughout the blacks.

I shoot weddings. If I cannot take pictures of people in black suits then I'm screwed, ditto my studio and portraiture work. I could bump up the shadows and contrast in ACR but then I've lost the detail in my blacks.

Although not always, the problem seems more predomenant in the lower half (horizontal) of the image. Could just be that the lower half is where the suits end up...

I've tried both neat image and noise ninja, neither do anything but smudge the noise through the black. I've tried blocking up the shadows slightly in both the red and green channels which seemed to work but I'm not sure if I will be able to use it in an action for 300+ images at a time with highly variable colour/density/subject matter.

I never saw anything like this with my 10D. If it was just underexposed images then that would be my fault, the problem was showing up today from an engagement shoot slightly overexposed at iso100, I'm at my wits end.

Help please?
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Ben Rubinstein

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What the #### is it with the 1Ds
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2005, 07:40:50 am »

The calibration is based on using a spyder, the brightness (my soft proofing to print) is based on the print. If my email provider lets me send files that large I'll send you one, thanks.
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Jonathan Wienke

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What the #### is it with the 1Ds
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2005, 12:12:47 pm »

After looking at the sample RAW Pom sent, the problem is neither noise nor moire; the ACR Shadow Tint setting simply needs to be set at about -3 and the problem goes away.
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Jonathan Wienke

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What the #### is it with the 1Ds
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2005, 02:05:56 pm »

I got it and replied; that one is underexposed and has a bit of the horizontal banding the 1Ds occasionally exhibits when underexposure and lots of low-detail dark areas are combined. Fortunately the fix is fairly easy, though not automatic.
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