Topic: Pocketwizard Hypersync!!!holycrap (Read 16857 times)

jing q · « **on:** February 17, 2009, 10:53:04 am »

http://www.pocketwizard.com/inspirations/t...persync_fpsync/

Does this mean that my Mamiya AFd just got alot more useful???
Do we still need leaf shutters??
even if it improves the 1/125 flash sync to just 1/250 it's still infinitely more useful
I can't wait to get more information on this

free1000 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2009, 11:18:06 am »

No, these devices are for Canon cameras.

pss · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2009, 11:49:06 am »

if you got to rob's site, there are some tests with different cameras/formats and wireless systems....the smaller the sensor, the better this works (obviously)...but even the 5DII only gets a 1/3 or maybe 2/3 of a stop faster sync speed....so i don't think 1/250 will be possible....but anything helps.....

there is the other part of the hyperspeed sync that might work better.....the one where the shutter uses the flashlight as it is dying, so the light is a lot weaker and there obviously some major issues with consistency (output and color)....but the sync speeds might get all the way to 1/1000 with this.....i think with some newer higher end studio systems this shoudl be an option....something to look into.....

this could be so much better if this technology was built into the packs or heads! in that case the PW would not have to anticipate or guess.....i think that would be a real step up.....

either way...a brilliant solution....amazing nobody had come up with that earlier.....

jing q · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:03:03 pm »

Quote from: pss

if you got to rob's site, there are some tests with different cameras/formats and wireless systems....the smaller the sensor, the better this works (obviously)...but even the 5DII only gets a 1/3 or maybe 2/3 of a stop faster sync speed....so i don't think 1/250 will be possible....but anything helps.....

there is the other part of the hyperspeed sync that might work better.....the one where the shutter uses the flashlight as it is dying, so the light is a lot weaker and there obviously some major issues with consistency (output and color)....but the sync speeds might get all the way to 1/1000 with this.....i think with some newer higher end studio systems this shoudl be an option....something to look into.....

this could be so much better if this technology was built into the packs or heads! in that case the PW would not have to anticipate or guess.....i think that would be a real step up.....

either way...a brilliant solution....amazing nobody had come up with that earlier.....

i actually used to experiment with the Multimax this way: I'd set a delay on the strobe for a fraction of a second, so that the flash syncs with a faster shutter speed that would usually result in a black frame.
but this was very dependent on the flash duration of the pack which changed at different power settings of course.

Big problem here is that I'm using profoto packs which have a pretty short flash duration, so the delay has to be much more accurate than with other packs...

yes it's great that such technology is available now. my canon just got alot more attractive to use.

Alex MacPherson · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:49:57 pm »

So ... how is a flash sync of 1/500 help Canon users? As far as I know the maximum flash sync on a Canon is 1/250 on the 1Ds MkIII.

This might be useful for medium format users... but these are not made for medium format.

I don't get it.

jing q · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:57:41 pm »

Quote from: Dolce Moda Photography

So ... how is a flash sync of 1/500 help Canon users? As far as I know the maximum flash sync on a Canon is 1/250 on the 1Ds MkIII.

This might be useful for medium format users... but these are not made for medium format.

I don't get it.

well I shoot outdoors with ambient and strobe lighting.
having the 1/500s option is a big help.
esp for reducing ghosting

edit:I just reread your statement....
it allows Canon users to override the 1/250th flash sync speed and flash sync at 1/500th of a second!

paul_jones · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2009, 02:29:36 am »

Quote from: jing q

well I shoot outdoors with ambient and strobe lighting.
having the 1/500s option is a big help.
esp for reducing ghosting

edit:I just reread your statement....
it allows Canon users to override the 1/250th flash sync speed and flash sync at 1/500th of a second!

not sure if im understanding this, i how will they will get 500th second out a focal plane shutter (with a powerpack). i thought the shutter didnt completely open at higher than 250th of a sec. sure if the powerpack has a low flash duration itself, but any modern flash would cause the shutter to "caught" in the exposure.

i know how the canon flash units work, but arnt pw saying that you can get that performance out of packs.

unless, canons shutters really are open completely at 500th of a sec, but rate them at 250th to make up for slow syncing flash?

paul

christian_raae · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2009, 04:17:11 am »

That's pretty much what I'm thinking of too.

Can I get the 1/500 sync speed on my backup camera, canon 5d, with my elinchrom ranger with a heads?
If so, on all power settings?

If so, the hassy is gonna have to rest a little bit more on the coming shoots :-)

Snook · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2009, 07:22:00 am »

I may be mistaken but the Flash triggering device has nothing to do with whether the/a camera can sync higher or not.

Can some one prove or state otherwise.

What the heck would the pocket wizard device have to do with the in camera curtain....

I think most in here are dreaming or wishful thinking but it aint going to happen. It would certainly make mamiya think twice about producing a new leafshutter lens.

Don't think it is as simple as you al are stating here..:+}
Hope I am wrong.

Snook

Ken Bennett · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2009, 08:42:38 am »

Go read the review and explanation at Rob Galbraith's site.

We're talking about studio/location strobes here, NOT speedlights. The high-speed sync option uses the new PW to trigger the flash slightly *before* the shutter opens. Then the shutter is open during the "tail" of the flash duration, when it acts something like a continuous light. Needless to say, how well it works depends entirely on the model of flash one uses, as well as which Canon camera.

Go see the review. It's quite comprehensive.

http://tinyurl.com/cfr2um

Kristian Tjong · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2009, 09:52:51 am »

http://radiopopper.com/blog/?p=69

jing q · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2009, 01:23:04 pm »

Quote from: paul_jones

not sure if im understanding this, i how will they will get 500th second out a focal plane shutter (with a powerpack). i thought the shutter didnt completely open at higher than 250th of a sec. sure if the powerpack has a low flash duration itself, but any modern flash would cause the shutter to "caught" in the exposure.

i know how the canon flash units work, but arnt pw saying that you can get that performance out of packs.

unless, canons shutters really are open completely at 500th of a sec, but rate them at 250th to make up for slow syncing flash?

paul

huh?
if the shutter isn't fully open then how does it actually capture an image?
closed shutter = no image

paul_jones · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2009, 01:38:56 pm »

after reading robGs tests, its not very exciting news.
looks like you need a slow flash duration (no 10,000th sec with a bron), and its only going to give you 250th sec. i get 250th sec with a hard wired sync .

i thought it sounded too good to be true.. or at least true with a 1dsmk3.

paul

Snook · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2009, 01:49:35 pm »

Quote from: paul_jones

after reading robGs tests, its not very exciting news.
looks like you need a slow flash duration (no 10,000th sec with a bron), and its only going to give you 250th sec. i get 250th sec with a hard wired sync .

i thought it sounded too good to be true.. or at least true with a 1dsmk3.

paul

I get 320/th somtimes with my 1DsMII with only a slight blackness to the edge which I take of by compositing a little further out...:+}

Sounds like BS to me!

Marketing BS in any case..
I do like the lower profile of the unit and do not know why PW did not redesign the stupid thing a long time ago.
Snook

paul_jones · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2009, 02:00:39 pm »

Quote from: jing q

huh?
if the shutter isn't fully open then how does it actually capture an image?
closed shutter = no image

heres my explanation of focal plane shutters (please correct me if anyone knows this better)

on a focal plane shutter, there are two curtains, it starts with the first curtain opening, then follows with the second curtain closing.
at lower shutter speeds, the first curtain opens completely before the second curtain starts to close.
these are the usual "flash sync" speeds. but at higher speeds, the second curtain actually starts closing before the first has opened completely.
this is how you get the shutter caught by the flash. you will get a dark band(the shutter) at the bottom of a horizontal shot (on a newish nikon or canon).
on real fast speeds, ie 1000 sec, the second curtain follows the first curtain so close, you effectively have a thin strip of the "opening" flying across the frame.
this, with ambient light doesnt cause any problems, it just turns into a small, fast exposure. but with flash, especially with a really fast duration- faster than the shutter speed, theres no way to expose the frame with the complete journey of the shutter across the frame, so the shutter itself gets exposed.

canon speed lights work differently though (as far as i understand), they flash multiple times very quickly during the exposure, so therefore effectively covers the shutters journey across the frame.

paul

paul_jones · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2009, 02:06:24 pm »

Quote from: Snook

I get 320/th somtimes with my 1DsMII with only a slight blackness to the edge which I take of by compositing a little further out...:+}

Sounds like BS to me!

Marketing BS in any case..
I do like the lower profile of the unit and do not know why PW did not redesign the stupid thing a long time ago.
Snook

is this with a PW? i was doing a test shoot yesterday with my brons and using PW plus. i could only get 200th sec, and some days when shooting light bgs (so the dark band can be seen), only 125. pretty stink, when PW claim 250th flash sync with focal plane shutters!
when i use the sync cord to trigger, i get a full 250th sec sync.

paul

pss · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2009, 02:33:10 pm »

the problem with wireless sync is the delay after one hits the shutter, and when the pack actually receives the signal to "pop flash NOW".....most flash duration is much shorter then 1/250 of a sec....
so these new triggers simply time it so you maximise the time available for the full frame exposure....which will be different for every camera, flash and combination.....
obviously the smaller the sensor, the high the sync speed.....

these units don't work on MF cameras at all, probably due to digital timing control.....

don't forget: the nikons, canons can sync up to 1/8000 with their system flashes!

looking at rob's review one can expect about 1/3 to 2/3 realistc improvement after testing and some adjustments....not bad at all IMO.....

jing q · « **Reply #17 on:** February 19, 2009, 03:09:26 am »

actually I still can't figure out why there isn't a possibility of relying on the back to set the X-sync rather than relying on the shutter.
on the old Nikon D70 I could flash sync up to 1/2000th of a second (the maximum shutter speed) even though it wasn't officially supported.
I believe the exposure was dependent on the sensor rather than the shutter.
Why can't this be done with a DB? If the DB is the one that sets the exposure, takes an image for 1/1000th of a second then doesn't record any more than that.
Would need close integration with the camera but these days the camera companies and DB makers are working closely. I'm sure a firmware update can make it happen.

there was some talk about needing to take a black frame blah blah but if some MFDB company could figure it out and work in tandem with the camera company to develop a solution that would be a BIG selling point.
Mamiya! how about it. So we will stop bitching about your horrendous flash sync capabilities.

paul_jones · « **Reply #18 on:** February 19, 2009, 03:17:43 am »

Quote from: jing q

actually I still can't figure out why there isn't a possibility of relying on the back to set the X-sync rather than relying on the shutter.
on the old Nikon D70 I could flash sync up to 1/2000th of a second (the maximum shutter speed) even though it wasn't officially supported.
I believe the exposure was dependent on the sensor rather than the shutter.
Why can't this be done with a DB? If the DB is the one that sets the exposure, takes an image for 1/1000th of a second then doesn't record any more than that.
Would need close integration with the camera but these days the camera companies and DB makers are working closely. I'm sure a firmware update can make it happen.

there was some talk about needing to take a black frame blah blah but if some MFDB company could figure it out and work in tandem with the camera company to develop a solution that would be a BIG selling point.
Mamiya! how about it. So we will stop bitching about your horrendous flash sync capabilities.

the nikon (and canon) can only work at that sync by using their own brand flashes. the high sync flashes work by flashing a few times really quickly, like strobe effect, to cover the curtain travel. it wont work with fast studio flash units.

paul

jing q · « **Reply #19 on:** February 19, 2009, 03:36:44 am »

Quote from: paul_jones

the nikon (and canon) can only work at that sync by using their own brand flashes. the high sync flashes work by flashing a few times really quickly, like strobe effect, to cover the curtain travel. it wont work with fast studio flash units.

paul

paul, no this is not true.
I shot with 2 Elinchrom 600s monoblocs with a D70 at 1/1000th of a second before.
It worked. After that I couldn't find another dslr that did the same trick. If you can find a friend with a d70 you can give it a shot

Author Topic: Pocketwizard Hypersync!!!holycrap (Read 16857 times)

Snook

Snook