Large group upscale restuarant shoot.

[Ben Rubinstein]

If I can't have assistants roaming, or if there is a podium for speakers, I set up one or two (or more) lights along one wall, on tall light stands. These are also direct lights, no umbrella or box. Set them to manual output, and use them as either back lighting, side lighting, or main lights, depending on your position relative to the subject. I use an on-camera flash set to TTL -1 for fill, and fire the remotes using Pocket Wizards.

Do this the whole time at weddings though I use my strobes bounced for further and more even coverage. The sector I work for doesn't usually go in for the cave interior look wedding halls so I need to replicate the brightness and colour balance, easiest way to do this is with strobes and bounce and on camera fill. You can fill a large hall with just two strobes bounced if you position them right and the ceiling is high enough. Wouldn't do it without an on camera fill simply because you get the same problem as with regular bounce flash, you need a fill card! When talking about this scale of lighting you need to get light into those eye sockets and under the chins/noses and if you're in a big crowd there could be very little light at all within the group if you have no fill.

Trick to work round the preflash is to use radio slaves though you could set your 580exII's to auto flash which actually works really well with strobes. As you have a 1Ds mkIII the flashes will read the settings from your camera even in auto mode so it could be a no brainer solution.

[jing q]

you're going to need strobes.
make it simple, get a bunch of softboxes, line them up from the centre outwards and light everyone evenly.

[dwdallam]

Why use 3 580's? When you can get it to work with your strobes you might as well get another 2 cheap flashes with built-in slave cells. I have bought 4 SB80DX flashes for in total appr. 500USD (400euros). These things you turn on in slave mode and you can pretty much put them anywhere you like.

I'm really thinking about getting those flashes. I just ordered the new Paul buff remotes and the trigger. He has a deal going where if you bought one of his first generation remotes and triggers, you get a %age of your money back when you purchase the upgrades. Saves me 80 dollars. They work with any flash unit using a PC plug. Lots cheaper than the PWs too and they sync at 250th.

Using the SB80DXs and my Bogen Super Clamp, yeah, they are easy to mount anywhere.

But see below for the solution I used.

[dwdallam]

Trick to work round the preflash is to use radio slaves though you could set your 580exII's to auto flash which actually works really well with strobes. As you have a 1Ds mkIII the flashes will read the settings from your camera even in auto mode so it could be a no brainer solution.

Not sure I understand this. the 580s won't work with strobes in Auto. the preflash thing. It's the only way auto can work. The only way to get it to work is use manual. Are you talking about using multiple 580s in auto mode? If so, I never even thought about that. And yeah, if set properly in auto, using FEC, that might be a real no brainer indeed. Canon flashes, until the EX II with a PC plug, were not used much in manual. They do work incredibly well as they were designed--auto. Maybe the best available, especially when you can simply dial up or down to get the ambient light effect you want, while dragging the shutter also.

[dwdallam]

After I did the couple shots I tried several methods for the roaming shots.

I set up two strobes over the dance floor and used the 580 on camera for fill. It worked but I was moving so much and had such limited space to set the strobes that I was shooting into the strobes a lot. No big deal the effect isn't a killer. I was running back and forth turning on one light and turning off the other. Then I turned them down a low as I could using ISO 800, and still was getting too much light.

Shut them off and used the ambient lighting plus the 580 in manual, and then tried auto also. Manual was working much better for me because I could control the effect I wanted using the shutter and controlled flash output. Not only that but all of the subjects were at different distances. There was almost no way to to get the effects I wanted at a specific time using area lighting.

It wasn't that bad actually. I mean we now have at our disposal the LCD, Histogram, and our basic understanding of lighting all together with instant feedback. I wasn't even thinking about it after about 5 minutes. If I didn't get the look I was after, and understanding my equipment and light, I could get that look dialing the flash up or down, using a different shutter, or suing FEC and TTL flash.

the other thing that was annoying was that all of the walls have pictures hanging from them with glass over them. It was impossible to get pictures without seeing the flash in one of the pictures hanging on the walls. took some creativity before and post processing for sure.

Thee only area I think I did malfunction was setting up a back light/rim light/background light--a separator light, in short. I was using a black background (muslin) and I had no room at all. I was initially going to use an overhead gridded spot for the hair light for separation. then I thought better of it because people would be moving around too much. So I was going with a grid spot on the background. What I wanted to do was to create a gray oval in back of the couples. I couldn't get the light far enough from the background to get that effect. I moved it as close as it could and aimed it up skimming the backdrop.

I didn't like the effect, but there were so many people I didn't and would not have had the time to adjust it for every couple. If I had to do it again, I'd set up a small soft box overhead. So I screwed that up, but with some creative post processing the results are acceptable.

I'll post some results after I get the job done.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

[Dustbak]

Sounds like you have done some serious sweating & swearing  I am looking forward to see some of the results (also the bad ones).

[dwdallam]

Sounds like you have done some serious sweating & swearing  I am looking forward to see some of the results (also the bad ones).

Once I got on location it was stress free for the most part. I could easily get very good at this sort of shooting because it's very similar from one job to the next. However it's not where my interest lie. It bored me really, but the money is good and i can see why people need or want to do it. but it's not for the relationship between learning to create, rather more so making money. I've avoided that motivator since I left a major oil company as an analyst years ago.  However, i could get a limited set of skills for this type of photography down quickly and use those skills to make easy money. The problem is that I would never market myself in that way.

The upside to this sort of thing is that I got called today by a new client that met me at that function and wants me to do some modeling shots of some gals with hotrods. I haven't a clue what he has going, but I'm interested in that stuff as a way to generate income much more than I am doing functions. the license for creativity is much greater for one, and it's just more fun for me. My main interest at this time is still studio and fine art nude and people, abstract, and of course landscape. I feel a very real need to investigate hard core shape and form, abstract, and fine art people photography at this time. I have ideas flying into my head, metaphor, relation, statement and they won't stop.

Thanks a lot for all of the comments. Sure made things easier for me.

And BTW, I never show my bad shots--are you kidding?   For one, my really bad shots are blank frames. You wanna see those? --lol

[Dustbak]

Once I got on location it was stress free for the most part. I could easily get very good at this sort of shooting because it's very similar from one job to the next. However it's not where my interest lie. It bored me really, but the money is good and i can see why people need or want to do it. but it's not for the relationship between learning to create, rather more so making money. I've avoided that motivator since I left a major oil company as an analyst years ago.  However, i could get a limited set of skills for this type of photography down quickly and use those skills to make easy money. The problem is that I would never market myself in that way.

The upside to this sort of thing is that I got called today by a new client that met me at that function and wants me to do some modeling shots of some gals with hotrods. I haven't a clue what he has going, but I'm interested in that stuff as a way to generate income much more than I am doing functions. the license for creativity is much greater for one, and it's just more fun for me. My main interest at this time is still studio and fine art nude and people, abstract, and of course landscape. I feel a very real need to investigate hard core shape and form, abstract, and fine art people photography at this time. I have ideas flying into my head, metaphor, relation, statement and they won't stop.

Thanks a lot for all of the comments. Sure made things easier for me.

And BTW, I never show my bad shots--are you kidding?   For one, my really bad shots are blank frames. You wanna see those? --lol

Hmmm.... you sound a lot like me. I left a directors job at a large communication company to pursue to photography. I do find I do many jobs just for the money as well. It does help me finance the other part of photography. I don't mind so much doing the things I would not have done if there wasn't a client paying for it. I did find it difficult to learn to make things that please other people instead of myself.

I never kid about bad shots  I have learned more from mistakes than anything else. Painful but helpful.

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

And BTW, I never show my bad shots--are you kidding?   For one, my really bad shots are blank frames. You wanna see those? --lol

I want to see the best of your blank frames, so I can compare them to my own blank frames!    
Your comment reminds me of my intense embarrassment, after thirty or more years of photography, when I first started using a Mamiya 6 (rangefinder MF film camera). On several rolls of film the first two or three pictures were blank -- from leaving the lens cap on (hard to do that on an SLR).

I'm glad your ordeal with the mass shoot worked out well. It doesn't sound like a lot of fun.

[dwdallam]

I want to see the best of your blank frames, so I can compare them to my own blank frames!    
Your comment reminds me of my intense embarrassment, after thirty or more years of photography, when I first started using a Mamiya 6 (rangefinder MF film camera). On several rolls of film the first two or three pictures were blank -- from leaving the lens cap on (hard to do that on an SLR).

I'm glad your ordeal with the mass shoot worked out well. It doesn't sound like a lot of fun.

That would be embarrassing, but at least it's a simple mistake. It wasn't too bad, but I'm not a crowd person. I like one on one or two person shoots the best. Large multiple group shots make me feel as if I'm herding cats more than doing photography. It's like assembly line work. Yuck.

I was just about ready to go to print and print tested a few images for profile accuracy. The contrast is way off. the images I tested were too dark and too flat. I've had this problem before. I may need to lower the contrast on my monitor then calibrate it again faking the calibration to give me less contrast, so I then increase it. I thought I had that problem figured out, but I guess not. Sometimes the Noritsu that Costco use drifts though. It's a hard one to figure.

I may upgrade my calibration software too. I am currently using a Spyder II Suite. Does anyone have a preference for calibration hardware/software? My problem with Spyder is that it doesn't seem to take into consideration print contrast, so if your monitor is a high contrast type, you end up turning down the contrast. then you get dark or flat prints.

[DesW]

I may upgrade my calibration software too. I am currently using a Spyder II Suite. Does anyone have a preference for calibration hardware/software? My problem with Spyder is that it doesn't seem to take into consideration print contrast, so if your monitor is a high contrast type, you end up turning down the contrast. then you get dark or flat prints.

Morning All,

I do Fine Art Books/etc and highly recommend the German BasicColor Software-- John Mayer put us on to it.

http://www.basiccolor.de/

Good Luck

DesW

[dwdallam]

As p[promised, here are a few of the images from the gig. I'm luke warm about them, but client seems very happy:

[Dustbak]

Nice job. As long as the client is happy, it should be fine. I know exactly what you mean, it was one of the weirdest things I had to get used to. To sometimes make things that aren't appealling to me (to the brink of finding it downright ugly) while the client loves it. Getting paid ought to make up for that but it still feels kind of unrewarding at times

It does make you realize that taste is totally personal.

It would have been a lot worse if both you as well as your client would have hated them

[dwdallam]

Nice job. As long as the client is happy, it should be fine. I know exactly what you mean, it was one of the weirdest things I had to get used to. To sometimes make things that aren't appealling to me (to the brink of finding it downright ugly) while the client loves it. Getting paid ought to make up for that but it still feels kind of unrewarding at times

It does make you realize that taste is totally personal.

It would have been a lot worse if both you as well as your client would have hated them

Well the ones that turned out like these there isn't much to bitch about. I mean they're decent images for the type of photography it was. There are just technical issues on my end that really no one else sees, but I do. There are some creative issues too which are bothersome to me, but I'm pushing myself as always.

Thanks

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

Given the "zoo" situation you were working in, I think these are excellent. You should be proud of them (and then go back to work you enjoy more!)

[dwdallam]

Given the "zoo" situation you were working in, I think these are excellent. You should be proud of them (and then go back to work you enjoy more!)

Hey thanks for the encouragement. I actually got two more jobs from people seeing the images, but I don't get it. These are NOT what I would call marketing images, or portfolio images. I think maybe this is a result of me having many, many ideas that I really need to get going on. I feel like I am just on the cusp on breaking into a new level of photography for myself. I'm just not getting time to settle enough to pull my ideas into metaphors I can work with (I'm having some very strong ideas seeing some strong images in my head for some fine art type stuff). The guy in the red jacket I'm getting some ideas from and I have talked to his friend about doing something more fine art like in the future. So that is a good thing that came out of this. It was fun too I have to admit. But being out of my element was stressful. That and knowing that I need to get going on developing my new interest which will hopefully raise me to a new personal level of photography.

Thanks again.