Large group upscale restuarant shoot.

[dwdallam]

I got called on short notice (Why do I always get these stress burner jobs?) to do a 50 people reservation in an upscale restaurant, formal setting. The client wants coupes shots and then roaming shots of the dinner and dance after dinner.

As far as the set for the couples, that's easy. The roaming shots I'm wondering about. Sure, I can clip on a bracket and use a flash gun, pretty normal. But I'm thinking about something different, not to the exclusion of a bracketed flash gun. I was thinking about setting up two soft boxes on either side of the room toward the dance floor up high and matched as closely as possible to the ambient lighting.

Since I never do this type of photography, how do you shoot these types of events? What's your efficient light method?

I on the 18th evening.

[Dustbak]

For the group shot, asssuming you want to light everybody pretty evenly I would not take the softboxes. I would opt for larger umbrellas. Boxes tend to be a bit more directional than umbrellas (which gives just a big forward cone of light instead of a regtangular or (semi)round beam).

I would also place them not too close to prevent the strength of the light falling off too fast, a bit further will give you somewhat harder light but everybody gets about the same amount of light. Unless ofcourse you have a mix of very dark and light people dressed in black suits and white dresses .  If you can get the ambient to play a role in your lighting as well, great. Just make sure every light source has about the same temperature.

Another 'trick' I use with shots that contain more than 1 person is to set my camera on tripod, use a remote and make multiple shots. This way it is fairly easy to use more than 1 image and blend them together to make sure everybody has a 'decent' face in the image.

Don't worry, it seems the regular thing to get called in at the last notice. It happens to me as well all the time. You eventually get used to it

Goodluck!

[dwdallam]

The umbrella tip was a good one. I had forgotten about those issues you point out. Also the umbrellas throw more light too, reducing power requirements. For the open dance shots and restaurant main room shots, I just want to throw as much light as I can everywhere pretty much, unless someone disagrees with that approach.

However, I'm going to be doing a fair amount of unposed, candid type photojournalist type shots while people are just hobnobbing around. There won't be enough light to do that without a flash. I have a custom bracket make up and a flash method I use to get the most of out of my flash gun. But I'm wondering if anyone has something different that may prove "better" for this environment. The ceilings are high, so straight up flash isn't going to work. I cut 10" white foam to fit on the back of my flash gun and then usually aim it up about 25 degrees. Seems to give me decent results. I do like to bounce it whenever I have a chance too, but isn't going to be much of an option in that large room.
Aside from having an assistant carry around a small 20x30 softbox for every shot, with a battery pack--lol--what other options are there? I never thought I'd use a ring flash, but this seems like it might be a good place for a ring flash. I'm just  always looking for ways to do things differently to create my own lighting patterns and style. Even thoguh I hate doing things "the way others do it" sometimes they are the best way to go about it, or perhaps given specific criteria in a shoot, the only practical way to go about it.

Thanks for any other ideas.

[David Anderson]

Ringflash is great on models and beautiful people, but point one at a fugly person and you will only make them more so..  

I think the suggestion of a couple brollys for the group shot is a good one, you could also use the same lighting for the couples stuff and even a few candid shots or room shots if you get the light even enough around the space.

For anything else an on camera flash and some sort of diffusion like a Stofen will make your life much easier - just keep the ISO ramped up a bit and the shutter speed down to keep some ambient light and the mood.

[Jonathan Wienke]

One thing I've done is set up some studio strobe in inconspicuous locations in the room bounced off the ceiling (assuming the ceiling is reasonably neutral). Then I put a 550EX/580EX in the hot shoe on the camera (for fill) and a Pocket Wizard connected to the PC jack on the camera to trigger the strobes. Using this setup, you can use the on-camera flash for fill and foreground lighting, and the strobes to light everything else. The metering pre-flash won't prematurely trigger the strobes, because the optical sensor is disabled when the cable to the Pocket Wizard is connected. I used 4 Alien Bees (2x 400, 2x 800) on stands, with the stock reflectors for bouncing off ceiling, and use umbrellas only when bouncing off the ceiling is impractical or undesirable for some reason.

The strobes, if creatively located, will boost the ambient lighting enough so that you can use reasonable shutter and ISO settings, and relegating the on-camera flash to a fill role minimizes harsh, ugly shadows.

[Ken Bennett]

It sounds from your OP that you will shoot couples photos in front of a backdrop with lights, and then candid shots roaming the floor. No giant group shot. Is that right?

For roaming shots, in a large party setting, I use on-camera flash on a bracket, and one or more off camera flashes held by assistants. These are placed behind and to one (or both) side(s) of the small group I want to shoot. They are pointed at the ceiling, if it's low enough, or pointed toward the back of the group. This provides rim light (separation light), and lights the area behind the subject. Looks great. The on camera flash is on TTL, set to Master, and the off camera flashes are on Manual, set to Slave, and the camera is set for correct exposure using the manual flashes. The on camera flash TTL provides the proper exposure on the subject. (Watch those dark suits -- I often shoot with a -2/3 setting.)

If I can't have assistants roaming, or if there is a podium for speakers, I set up one or two (or more) lights along one wall, on tall light stands. These are also direct lights, no umbrella or box. Set them to manual output, and use them as either back lighting, side lighting, or main lights, depending on your position relative to the subject. I use an on-camera flash set to TTL -1 for fill, and fire the remotes using Pocket Wizards.

In many cases I will also drag the shutter a bit, just to bring up any ambient fixtures in the background. Yes, they are often too warm, but that's what people expect -- and they look better than if I shot at 1/250 at f/8 and the entire back of the room went dark. So my exposures are usually in the 1/30 at f/4 range, around ISO 400. Depends on the room. If the event happens during the day, life gets easier, but most of our big events are at night.

A note on umbrellas and soft boxes: for large groups and big rooms, direct flash actually looks pretty good. You just have to make sure it's filled properly, either by other direct flash or by on-camera flash. Think about good basketball lighting -- that's four direct lights, cross-lit (one on each corner) so everything has main light, fill, and rim light, no matter where the player stands. That's the goal in party/reception shooting.

Good luck. Hope you are charging them lots of cash.

[dwdallam]

Ringflash is great on models and beautiful people, but point one at a fugly person and you will only make them more so..  

I think the suggestion of a couple brollys for the group shot is a good one, you could also use the same lighting for the couples stuff and even a few candid shots or room shots if you get the light even enough around the space.

For anything else an on camera flash and some sort of diffusion like a Stofen will make your life much easier - just keep the ISO ramped up a bit and the shutter speed down to keep some ambient light and the mood.

OK thanks for that. I'm pretty up on ambient/flash mixtures. I've owned a stofen and Fong flash diffuser and can't tell any difference on my 580 EX. It does a very good job of diffusing that light from such a small source. Pretty amazing. Thanks much.

One other thing for those reading, there isn't going to be a huge group shot. Those have proven pretty easy for me to get my head around, but I've only done a few--I'm not that type of photography. It's going to be couples shots in formal wear, and then I'm roaming. That's it.

[dwdallam]

One thing I've done is set up some studio strobe in inconspicuous locations in the room bounced off the ceiling (assuming the ceiling is reasonably neutral). Then I put a 550EX/580EX in the hot shoe on the camera (for fill) and a Pocket Wizard connected to the PC jack on the camera to trigger the strobes. Using this setup, you can use the on-camera flash for fill and foreground lighting, and the strobes to light everything else. The metering pre-flash won't prematurely trigger the strobes, because the optical sensor is disabled when the cable to the Pocket Wizard is connected. I used 4 Alien Bees (2x 400, 2x 800) on stands, with the stock reflectors for bouncing off ceiling, and use umbrellas only when bouncing off the ceiling is impractical or undesirable for some reason.

The strobes, if creatively located, will boost the ambient lighting enough so that you can use reasonable shutter and ISO settings, and relegating the on-camera flash to a fill role minimizes harsh, ugly shadows.

Really nice idea there Jonathan. Thanks. I was wondering how I could use both my studios plus my one camera. I never gave it much thought, but yeah duh, when the cordless receivers are plugged in, like you said, the light trigger won't is disabled. The only thing is I only have one wireless receiver. I was waiting for Paul Buff to finalize his excellent new receiver Commander units. I can at least use one flash in a 48 inch umbrella perhaps. The ceilings are really to the moon in this place. I estimate they are 15+ feet. I'll set up my AB 15600 with a silver umbrella and see what it can do.

Thanks much.

[Dustbak]

I don't get that? When I use my radio trigger (Elinchrom Skyport) my optical eye on the flash remains functioning however I can turn it off. Problem is that when I use my transmitter my on-board flash doesn't function.

There is however an easier way which is to put your on-board flash on manual and turn the optical eyes on on your flashes. Just hope there aren't too many people snapping with their pocket cams

When cross lighting the whole room you probably don't need to use the on-boar/on-camera flash and just use the trigger only. This way you don't have to get annoyed over a bunch of people that are triggering your strobes constantly.

[dwdallam]

It sounds from your OP that you will shoot couples photos in front of a backdrop with lights, and then candid shots roaming the floor. No giant group shot. Is that right?

For roaming shots, in a large party setting, I use on-camera flash on a bracket, and one or more off camera flashes held by assistants. These are placed behind and to one (or both) side(s) of the small group I want to shoot. They are pointed at the ceiling, if it's low enough, or pointed toward the back of the group. This provides rim light (separation light), and lights the area behind the subject. Looks great. The on camera flash is on TTL, set to Master, and the off camera flashes are on Manual, set to Slave, and the camera is set for correct exposure using the manual flashes. The on camera flash TTL provides the proper exposure on the subject. (Watch those dark suits -- I often shoot with a -2/3 setting.)

If I can't have assistants roaming, or if there is a podium for speakers, I set up one or two (or more) lights along one wall, on tall light stands. These are also direct lights, no umbrella or box. Set them to manual output, and use them as either back lighting, side lighting, or main lights, depending on your position relative to the subject. I use an on-camera flash set to TTL -1 for fill, and fire the remotes using Pocket Wizards.

In many cases I will also drag the shutter a bit, just to bring up any ambient fixtures in the background. Yes, they are often too warm, but that's what people expect -- and they look better than if I shot at 1/250 at f/8 and the entire back of the room went dark. So my exposures are usually in the 1/30 at f/4 range, around ISO 400. Depends on the room. If the event happens during the day, life gets easier, but most of our big events are at night.

A note on umbrellas and soft boxes: for large groups and big rooms, direct flash actually looks pretty good. You just have to make sure it's filled properly, either by other direct flash or by on-camera flash. Think about good basketball lighting -- that's four direct lights, cross-lit (one on each corner) so everything has main light, fill, and rim light, no matter where the player stands. That's the goal in party/reception shooting.

Good luck. Hope you are charging them lots of cash.

Yes you are right. And here are some great ideas. Cross fire lighting the entire room, how simply elegant and easy. Thank you.

As far as money goes, this is going to be my last shoot of this type unless my pockets are lined with cash. I don't like these types of shoots and I'm not particularly interested in bettering myself at them. Two really good reasons to not do them, unless of course, well, everyone has his or her price.

I think what I'll do is crank the lights up about 8 feet form the ceiling. That might work.

[dwdallam]

I don't get that? When I use my radio trigger (Elinchrom Skyport) my optical eye on the flash remains functioning however I can turn it off. Problem is that when I use my transmitter my on-board flash doesn't function.

There is however an easier way which is to put your on-board flash on manual and turn the optical eyes on on your flashes. Just hope there aren't too many people snapping with their pocket cams

When cross lighting the whole room you probably don't need to use the on-boar/on-camera flash and just use the trigger only. This way you don't have to get annoyed over a bunch of people that are triggering your strobes constantly.

I was just thinking about that actually. I could just use a manual setting on the on camera flash like you said. Good idea. The Alien Bees flashes disable the photo eye when you plug in a cord or any remote triggering device into their PC slots, or whatever they are where you plug in the remote or corded flash triggers.

Good idea about the manual on camera flash. That would or might make it even easier to adjust for ambient lights also, since the strobes will be set before hand.

[dwdallam]

Deleted

[Dustbak]

That works perfectly as a slight fill. Set it really low (1/64th or 1/32th) and off you go. Just hope there aren't too many Uncle Joes snapping with their pocket cams.

Show us some of the results if you can?

Pfff...just read your edit. I use my on-board flash (D300) or SB800. Those work. Bummer and strange you cannot do that with the Canon? Even my Hasselblad can do this  

[Dustbak]

4 Strobes should do it. I think you don't even need to fill it with the 580, the cross lighting should provide you with enough fill. You might try just having a transmitter on your body and receivers in the strobes. This allows you to walk freely and get good images.

[dwdallam]

deleted

[dwdallam]

I'm an idiot, although I don't know why master to off would matter.

The 580 was set to master. After I set it to OFF, and did the test again, it worked fine. Looks like I'm in business.  As far as Canon flashes go, they're about as intuitive as Quantum Mechanics.

[Ken Bennett]

4 Strobes should do it. I think you don't even need to fill it with the 580, the cross lighting should provide you with enough fill. You might try just having a transmitter on your body and receivers in the strobes. This allows you to walk freely and get good images.

In my experience, one really needs the on-camera fill in these situations. The remote lights just aren't high enough to prevent odd shadows being cast on the subjects from other people in the room. The fill light makes everything smooth out a bit -- it does make a difference.

[Dustbak]

In my experience, one really needs the on-camera fill in these situations. The remote lights just aren't high enough to prevent odd shadows being cast on the subjects from other people in the room. The fill light makes everything smooth out a bit -- it does make a difference.

Agreed, it would be ideal but if you cannot, you cannot. From the sound of it, it is now possible so indeed use the fill-in  

I think the Canon master setting is pretty much the same as the commander setting in Nikon. This setting uses pre-flashes to communicate with other flashes. Since your strobes are pretty dumb they fire upon the first pre-flash. When you turn the Nikon flash to manual (off with Canon, that is odd BTW) it stops doing the pre-flashes and you can use it together with 'regular' strobes.

[dwdallam]

The Canon has no way to turn off the preflash except putting it into manual mode, since the preflash is how the 580 sets the TTL meter. Like I said, I don't use that flash much. But I have it figured out now, for a while, then I'll forget again probably. the 580EX II is a great flash now with a PC connection too so you can use pretty much any wireless trigger, receiver combination with them. I feel sorry for the guys who developed the "Radio Popper" since in a few years, as the older flashes are phased out,  that product, as new as it is, will be obsolete. If I couild afford three 580 EX II's I would probably start using them more for location stuff. But they're expensive.

[Dustbak]

Why use 3 580's? When you can get it to work with your strobes you might as well get another 2 cheap flashes with built-in slave cells. I have bought 4 SB80DX flashes for in total appr. 500USD (400euros). These things you turn on in slave mode and you can pretty much put them anywhere you like.