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Author Topic: MF Digital Back vs 1Ds Mk II ($$$ - !!)  (Read 8423 times)

RobertJ

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MF Digital Back vs 1Ds Mk II ($$$ - !!)
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2004, 03:03:27 am »

You raised many points.  I think my brain hurts though.  

So let me get things straight:

1.  As of now, you shoot film with the Contax, (and scan it).

2.  You're pissed off because the P25 costs 30 zillion dollars, compared to an 8,000 dollar 1Ds2 that contains 6 less megapixels than the P25, and in your mind, the Canon is a lot more flexible, since it's in a fast focusing, fast shooting, low noise, versatile 35mm body, and the idea of spending so much on a Medium Format Digital Back makes you sick!

3.  You believe professionals will run away from the prices of Medium Format backs and end up using Professional Canon bodies instead, and then Medium Format Digital Backs will go bye-bye.

"This is truly a  shame.  Think of all the  wonderful cameras that are as good as  dead.  Really.  Stop  and think.  All gone in another  year or  so."

I'm not so sure what you mean by that.  Which cameras are you referring to?  Call me stupid, but I'm confused.  Also, I'm not so sure that all we'll be left with is Canon.  Even if we were, quality control would remain the same as it is now - pretty darn good.  Also, I believe things work better than they ever did.  The technology we have is blowing everyone's minds - especially photographers, and it can only get better from here.  

Are you a professional?  What do you shoot?  I'd seriously like to know.  Or are you just a hobbyist who can't afford to spend money on a digital back, like MANY other people, including myself.  

In conclusion, I think this is another case of, "What if I buy this digital product now and it sucks in 6 months?  What's the point? Stupid digital..."

If this is how you feel, no worries.  Film is great.  Digital is the future, and the future is almost NOW.  The P25 is an amazing tool.  Canon makes a #### fine camera.  

T-1000
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Quentin

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MF Digital Back vs 1Ds Mk II ($$$ - !!)
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2004, 12:24:55 pm »

For a technology in transition, $30k is not a sensible amount of money to pay to stay 12 months ahead of the pack, unless justified to satisfy client requirements (which it may be in some cases).

Even a 1Ds II is not necessarly the best choice.  A Kodak will most probably povide as good or better images in the right enviroment - not just my opinion, but also the view of this architectural photographer who has tried both, with the following shot taken with the SLR/n and (believe it or not) a hand-selected Sigma 12-24mm.  He has several similar shots from this combination on his site.  

http://www.tangential.de/_html-seiten/neu5.htm

I post this only to keep some sense of perspective (excuse the pun   ) lest we all run away with the idea that $30k backs and/or Canon dslrs, good no doubt as they are, are the only possible solutions out there.  They're not.

Quentin
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Quentin Bargate, ARPS, Author, Arbitrato

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MF Digital Back vs 1Ds Mk II ($$$ - !!)
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2004, 04:22:15 pm »

According to Phase One and their dealers they are overwhelmed with orders for not only their new portable P series backs, but also their tethered H series backs.

It looks like they're going to be in a back order situation for some time. and Phase are the most expensive of the whole MF back gang.

Photography is a large complex industry, and to judge it from just one persons limited perspective is to miss the larger picture. Medium format digital is hot, regardless of the high prices, and competition continues to heat up. That's what the consolidations are all about, and competativeness is being fed by the entry of Mamiya with its ZD backs and body.

This is possibly the most exciting part of the digital industry right now and growing at a healthy pace.

Michael
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Sfleming

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MF Digital Back vs 1Ds Mk II ($$$ - !!)
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2004, 05:33:01 pm »

**** Mamiya is perhaps on the way to being the Canon of the MF world. ****

Gee I hope you're right.  Hope they make an adapter for my  Contax too as I  ain't  switchin again.

Obviously  the  chip is not the thing  however.  It  seems  to be  more about  Canon's  Digic and  Phases  mysterious ability to make    chips  run cool.  If  Mamiya  can steal these  then they will be in business.  Bet they can't though.
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Jonathan Wienke

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MF Digital Back vs 1Ds Mk II ($$$ - !!)
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2004, 04:29:46 pm »

Well I guarantee you it's saved ME money. I can shoot jobs at 645 quality that would not be economically feasible with film. So I've gotten more experience and done more work than I would have shooting film. This has benefited me and my clients. If you shoot fewer frames than I do, then obviously the economics work differently and film may be more economical. But there's enough people like me to keep the DSLR and digital MF back manufacturers solvent for the forseeable future, and that's why I do not buy into sfleming's "the sky is falling" mentality. As long as the top-end DSLRs and digital MF backs are frequently back-ordered and difficult to get without a long wait, convincing me that the digital back market is doomed and Canon will become the only viable photographic company is going to be a pretty tough sell.
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BJL

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MF Digital Back vs 1Ds Mk II ($$$ - !!)
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2004, 11:24:15 am »

Kodak's FFT CCD developmeny certainly started with high end stuff like military and scientific applications, but it seems that now their greatest revenue source for R&D is the bottom. The sensors for the Olympus E-300 and even the E-1 will clearly sell in far larger volumes than any digital back sensors, and these sensors use essentially the same technology as the bigger ones, except with improvements.

Yes, the sensors for the E-300, E-1 and also the Leica R digital back are technically more advnavced that the older, larger 16MP and 22MP MF sensors, with far better quantum efficiency, giving higher maximum usable ISO for the E-1 and Leica R back despite smaller pixel size. Progress like this will likely "trickle up" to future sensors in "near 645 format"

I conclude that Kodak's FFT CCD revenue sources at least are being "democratized" by the DSLR boom.

Anyway, I do not think that military and civilian satellite and aerial photography and other scientific CCD customers are going away anytime soon.

P. S. The Dalsa photo was not of a military sensor; it was a wafer of 24x36mm ("35mm format") sensors, probably the 11MP ones used in some digital backs.
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Quentin

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MF Digital Back vs 1Ds Mk II ($$$ - !!)
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2004, 03:28:58 pm »

For pixel peepers everywhere, there is a comparison between the P25 and 1Ds II by Warren Roos and sample comparison images are up on Pbase.  

http://www.pbase.com/infocusinc/1dsmkii_vs_p25-h1_test

See also the thread on this subject on Rob Galbraith's forum.  

Quentin
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Quentin Bargate, ARPS, Author, Arbitrato

Delaunay

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MF Digital Back vs 1Ds Mk II ($$$ - !!)
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2006, 01:26:36 pm »

I'm starting out my own work now after nearly 10 years assiting other photographers.

I have a 503CW that is only missing a wide angle lense.

I trying to decide if I go to V96C and get me a wide lense or if I go for a complete Canon gear, 3 pro lenses, grip and probably EOS 5D.

There is no chances if you are in the studio. A digi Hassel is way better for that.
But I will probably do a lot of editorials for mags outdoors. Not to mention events and all other stupid things we have to do in the beginning.

If I was going to spend my time in the studio I would go for V96C for sure. But I believe that won't be the case.

 Some time ago I saw a comparison of V96C against EOS 1DS MK2.

To be honest, after you print there is no difference, except that Canon noise reduction software is a lot better than Hassel. Honestly, I prefer the Canon pictures!

Technical charts tells you something. But when you look to the practical side, things sometimes go another way!

I believe that if you don't work in a studio, Canon 1DS MK2 is much better than a digital Hassel!
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