The truth about dynamic range

[jpm]

It seems that we like hiking in the same places! I have a lot of pictures the port de Venasque, but taken before the digital era...
I have considered the 450D, but I have several batteries and compact flash cards that would not fit in it.
I have and old canon EF 28mm f2.8, but I have stopped using it with my 10D because of "ghosting" (purple geometric shapes due to sensor reflections on the lens)  

JPM

I think I could answer in french to a neighbour but that would be rude to our english speaking friends....
I have a 300D (the same sensor you have), a 40D, a 1DsMarkII and a 450D.
The main differences between the 300D and its younger siblings are mainly the resolution, and the noise at high iso.
If you don't need these two things you can very well live with your 300D. But as it has already been said by the other posters, shoot raw and buy a good RAW convertor.
I am personnaly using DxO; it is expensive, but according to me worth the price. You have the list of the supported lenses there:
http://www.dxo.com/fr/photo/dxo_optics_pro.../cameras_lenses

Regarding the so called "highlight mode", it can be usefull but doesn't replace RAW shooting (in fact, it is different; it can be used in RAW mode also).

If you want to buy a new camera, think about the 450D. I am using it regularly when I go hiking in the Pyrénées. Its sensor is better than the one on the 40D, and with a 28mm f/2.8 and a polarizing filter, you will have a wonderful combination of a very light and very good camera+lens system.

Some shots I have made with this system are available there:
http://www.photo-lovers.org/fvenasque.html.fr
http://www.photo-lovers.org/fmontne.html.fr
They have been shot in RAW, but I have made no special effort in converting them (just ordinary batch processing).

If you want to see a full size picture slightly more processed look there:
http://www.photo-lovers.org/portfolio/priv...divers/0259.jpg
It is standing as a 100x70cm poster in my office, just near other posters made with my 1DsMarkII, and the difference is clearly visible, but  is very seldom noticed by people who are not familiar with photography.

I hope it helps in making your decision.

JMA

PS: and a big hello to Edmund if he is still reading this thread. Haven't seen you for a while, guy...

[ddk]

Hi,

This is my first post on this forum, and I am only a casual photographer. I mainly shoot outdoors, usually in the mountains.
I have owned a 10D for many years, and was never fully satisfied by IQ. Mainly because of poor dynamic range. I think I did better images with my non-digital eos.

I went to several shops, and they all told me that the 10D was an old gear, that I should spend again 700 et 1000 euros to buy a 40D.
I am a bit upset because I don't want to spend 1000 euros on a body every 5 years or so...

Then I went to DXO mark and did some comparison. I realised there have been simply no progress at all on dynamic range at 100 iso betweeen the 10D and 40D for example. Of course, at highier iso there is a huge gap, but it does not really matter for me because I usually shoot with enough light.

So I am wondering: who is correct here? Shop dealers or DXO mark?
Should I buy another body or a fast prime lens to shoot at 100 iso with my 10D?

JPM

Fujis are DR kings, they're still ahead of anything else on the market today, including the Nikon D3 and Canon 1ds3, I know this from personal experience. Do yourself a favor and buy a Fuji S5, now reduced to ridiculously low prices too. You'll spend less time in front of the computer, get great colors and very deep tones even with jpgs and DR to die for. I haven't tried the Nikon D3x but I have a feeling that its not going to match Fuji's DR either, irrespective of DXO's figures.

[james_elliot]

Your experience with the 28 f/2.8 is odd. I have been shooting hundreds of pictures with the 450D/28-f/2.8 combination this summer and never had a single ghosting. As old as it is, it's still performing well even on my 1DsMarkII.
What do you use to clean your lens and your sensor?

JMA

It seems that we like hiking in the same places! I have a lot of pictures the port de Venasque, but taken before the digital era...
I have considered the 450D, but I have several batteries and compact flash cards that would not fit in it.
I have and old canon EF 28mm f2.8, but I have stopped using it with my 10D because of "ghosting" (purple geometric shapes due to sensor reflections on the lens)  

JPM

[jpm]

I don't think it can be a cleaning issue because ghosting appeared since the beginning (before any sensor cleaning). It happens outdoors, when light is coming from a specific range in the frame (neither top nor bottom, but let's say between 70 and 80% up or 70-80% down). This might not happen with the 450D.

JPM

PS: I'll post an example, but next week, because I am leaving home for a few days.

Your experience with the 28 f/2.8 is odd. I have been shooting hundreds of pictures with the 450D/28-f/2.8 combination this summer and never had a single ghosting. As old as it is, it's still performing well even on my 1DsMarkII.
What do you use to clean your lens and your sensor?

JMA

[NikoJorj]

I have considered the 450D, but I have several batteries and compact flash cards that would not fit in it.

I understand it's always frustrating to put some functional gear in the drawer because of marketing-related incompatibility, but economically, the price of these does not fill the gap between a xxxD and a xxD, all other things being equal.
Batteries are arount 8-10€ on reputed sites like aboutbatteries and 5-8$ on ebay... And cards aren't that expensive either (even if I don't buy them on ebay).
And I don't know for you, but for me the weight advantage of a 450d vs. a 50d is significant while hiking.
Matters of compromises, definitely.

[dwdmguy]

The best way to answer your question is for yourself to look at both medias for yourself but you have to understand DR.
First, if trust a DxO report do it with a very large grain of salt.

Next, understand that your eyes see between 14 and 15.5 stops of light and then understand what each of your media tests should present in terms of DR. Then judge for yourself.

The Megapixel war is a marketing maven, I call it "the great light hype" Camera mfr's will ride this wave as long as they can and then build up another one with DR.

I have a long history of shooting Digital, both Med Format and 35mm dSLR and just traded in most of my digi gear for a wonderful M6. Now I shoot and develop at home and I'm having a ball plus, in my mind, for what I do, and what gives ME pleasure and what I feel is a much better image is Film. Reasons are many.
The best reason of all is that I now have to think about making my picture, I shoot not the camera and every time, I come up with a better picture.

Bottom line, judge for yourself with your 15 stops of light in your eyes.

[Plekto]

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image.../FinePix-S5-Pro

I just thought that I'd like to mention the Fuji sensor again, because it appears to have almost 14(13.71) stops worth of DR.  The sensor technology makes a huge difference, IME.  I just wish they had a full-frame high resolution version of it...

But it does make great looking shots.  Very film-like.

S5 Pro
DR: 13.71 (12.96 at ISO800, still!)
Tonal Range: 8.49 bits
Color Sensitivity: 22.2 bits.
Color Response: 81.85

Nikon D3X
DR: 12.84
Tonal Range: 8.67 bits
Color Sensitivity: 22.2 bits
Color Response: 78.68

Amazing isn't it?  Other than resolution, this just barely edges out the newest Bayer Sensor toy.  Not by much, mind, you - the D3x is by far the closest to the Fuji Sensor to date.  The A900, for instance, is a huge amount lower than either:

A900:
DR: 11.18 (ouch)
Tonal Range: 7.97 bits.
Color Sensitivity: 20.8 bits
Color Response: 87.22 (note - about the highest they've tested!)

Just... 6MP isn't enough.  Not even close...  Love the look of the S5's shots, but its 6MP is noticeable with even a tiny bit of enlargement.

[lattiboy]

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image.../FinePix-S5-Pro

Amazing isn't it?  Other than resolution, this just barely edges out the newest Bayer Sensor toy.  Not by much, mind, you - the D3x is by far the closest to the Fuji Sensor to date.  The A900, for instance, is a huge amount lower than either:

A900:
DR: 11.18 (ouch)
Tonal Range: 7.97 bits.
Color Sensitivity: 20.8 bits
Color Response: 87.22 (note - about the highest they've tested!)

Just... 6MP isn't enough.  Not even close...  Love the look of the S5's shots, but its 6MP is noticeable with even a tiny bit of enlargement.

While I agree that jpeg performance w/r/t DR is pretty bad on the A900, the "headroom" in RAW is unbelievable! Using the recovery slider in LR you can totally recover bright white blown out sky completely. I think dpreview also mentioned this.