Topic: advice - best printer 13x19 (Read 7532 times)

mazma · « **on:** February 10, 2009, 02:04:35 pm »

hi,

i am positive this has been discussed many times. but i would still appreciate a current advice.

i just had the last nightmare experience with my epson 2200, so i am ready to put that on the closet, and move to the next step.
print quality is actually quite good (i print on 11x11 with moab paper for my portfolio). but the drivers for mac osx are now so out of date that it took me all night on saturday to print 20 pages, wasting other 20. i don't go into the problem details, but the printer was ready to be thrown in the river at a certain point...

apart from the other epson equivalent (R2880), is there any other printer that you recommend. printing with Mac, lightroom or photoshop. Moab paper.

thanks for your help guys.

ciao,
alberto

Dan Wells · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2009, 12:53:00 am »

You might want to look at 17-inch printers, due to their large (and much cheaper per ml) ink cartridges. Canon's iPF5100 is not terribly expensive, compared to a good 13-incher - it's perhaps $500 more, BUT it comes with $500+ worth of ink - call Shades of Paper for their best current price, as they can probably do a lot better than their website says), and it's a wonderful printer (or at least the iPF6100, which is the 24-inch version of the same machine, is). It has sheet and roll feed capability, which no 13-inch printer really does - those few that have roll holders have primitive non-motorized versions, and 13-inch rolls are hard to find and often overpriced. The only disadvantage I can see to the iPF5100 is that it's BIG - nearly 100 lbs! If you're willing to give up the roll feed, Epson's 17-inch 3800 is not much bigger than most 13-inch printers, but still uses the large cartridges of a 17-incher. Again, it is more expensive than 13-inch models, but by less than the amount of extra ink it comes with (so it and the iPF5100 are both actually often cheaper than top-end 13-inchers if you account for the amount of ink they ship with).

-Dan

Wayne Fox · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2009, 03:04:39 am »

The Epson 3800 is a nice compromise between a "desktop" size printer (it isn't much bigger than the 2200 you are retiring), with the advantage of much cheaper ink because of larger ink capacities. If you look around the net you'll see most users speak highly of it. It rarely has clogs (my 2 have been nearly clog free), black ink swaps require much less ink, paper handling is good, and output is first rate.

It seems a little pricey until you factor how much ink you get with the printer.

The Canon ipf5100 is a very good printer as well if you have the space(it's quite a bit larger). Coming from an Epson there is a learning curve, but output is terrific, black ink swaps take 0 ink and time.

GL with your search and decision.

Ernst Dinkla · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2009, 07:09:29 am »

Quote from: mazma

hi,

i am positive this has been discussed many times. but i would still appreciate a current advice.

i just had the last nightmare experience with my epson 2200, so i am ready to put that on the closet, and move to the next step.
print quality is actually quite good (i print on 11x11 with moab paper for my portfolio). but the drivers for mac osx are now so out of date that it took me all night on saturday to print 20 pages, wasting other 20. i don't go into the problem details, but the printer was ready to be thrown in the river at a certain point...

apart from the other epson equivalent (R2880), is there any other printer that you recommend. printing with Mac, lightroom or photoshop. Moab paper.

thanks for your help guys.

ciao,
alberto

The HP B9180 ? Matte or gloss Moab ?

Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

Ken Bennett · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2009, 07:14:18 am »

Here's another vote for a 17 inch printer, specifically the Epson 3800. It does have a Mac driver, and I've had one nozzle clog in 1.5 years of operation. (Which was fixed on the first cleaning cycle.) I haven't tried Moab paper, but it's made good prints on everything else I've thrown at it. I think I printed for more than six months before I had to change an ink cart. Don't underestimate the cost savings of the larger carts.

JohnBrew · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2009, 07:50:34 am »

Quote from: Dan Wells

You might want to look at 17-inch printers, due to their large (and much cheaper per ml) ink cartridges. Canon's iPF5100 is not terribly expensive, compared to a good 13-incher - it's perhaps $500 more, BUT it comes with $500+ worth of ink - call Shades of Paper for their best current price, as they can probably do a lot better than their website says), and it's a wonderful printer (or at least the iPF6100, which is the 24-inch version of the same machine, is). It has sheet and roll feed capability, which no 13-inch printer really does - those few that have roll holders have primitive non-motorized versions, and 13-inch rolls are hard to find and often overpriced. The only disadvantage I can see to the iPF5100 is that it's BIG - nearly 100 lbs! If you're willing to give up the roll feed, Epson's 17-inch 3800 is not much bigger than most 13-inch printers, but still uses the large cartridges of a 17-incher. Again, it is more expensive than 13-inch models, but by less than the amount of extra ink it comes with (so it and the iPF5100 are both actually often cheaper than top-end 13-inchers if you account for the amount of ink they ship with).

-Dan

This is right on the money advice. I've never looked back after buying this printer.

Eric Myrvaagnes · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2009, 10:27:07 am »

I'm glad others have chimed in with the 17" suggestions.

When my 2200 finally dies, I plan to get a 3800 (or its successor), and from all I've heard it should be much less expensive in the long run than my 2200 has been. The tiny 2200 ink carts (and the similar 2880 ones) are enormously expensive in the long run.

Bartone · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2009, 12:47:26 pm »

I had a 2200, then a 2400 epson(s). Lots of problems, finally I gave up - I wanted to print on thicker paper and the 2400 couldn't handle it well. In fact, it needed two repairs after 10 sheet of paper. I popped for the iPF6100 and I'm totally pleased. I believe the 5100 is the same ink system - so I'd recommend it. Your only loss is desktop space - the ink's cheaper in the long haul.

bartone

Jeremy Roussak · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2009, 01:03:36 pm »

Quote from: k bennett

Here's another vote for a 17 inch printer, specifically the Epson 3800. It does have a Mac driver, and I've had one nozzle clog in 1.5 years of operation. (Which was fixed on the first cleaning cycle.) I haven't tried Moab paper, but it's made good prints on everything else I've thrown at it. I think I printed for more than six months before I had to change an ink cart. Don't underestimate the cost savings of the larger carts.

I'll chime in as well: the 3800 is an excellent printer. Unlike the 5100 (as I understand it) it doesn't come on a palette and you don't need to be a bodybuilder to lift it. It's small and quite and although no speed demon produces beautiful output. The lack of roll feed is a shame, but I and I think others have managed individual long prints by cutting roll paper and being very careful with feeding it.

Jeremy

ChrisS · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2009, 01:12:51 pm »

I've found the HP B9180 to be a great printer. I don't print a lot and I don't print regularly, but have been doing test prints for several months and just did 20 or more A3+ prints, all with the set of inks that came with the printer. I think it's really cheap to run and the quality is really good. In fact, I've not thought about it much since I bought it - it's just something I use and take for granted.

Ernst Dinkla · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2009, 04:53:37 pm »

Quote from: ChrisS

I've found the HP B9180 to be a great printer. I don't print a lot and I don't print regularly, but have been doing test prints for several months and just did 20 or more A3+ prints, all with the set of inks that came with the printer. I think it's really cheap to run and the quality is really good. In fact, I've not thought about it much since I bought it - it's just something I use and take for granted.

The additional ink that comes with a 17" printer like the 3800 isn't always consumed in the first year of use. I have no direct purchase price details of the B9180 and the Epson 3800 but just counting the extra ink isn't always the best choice. Every black ink cycle PK>MK>PK takes 6 ML on the 3800, 13 cycles is one cart content. The initial ink loading after the purchase loads both black channels + twice the LK channel. 17" printer ink tubes are longer than 13" tubes. Cleaning cycles do the job twice on the LK channel due to the system. In general the Epson 17" wastes a lot more ink than the B9180. The heads of the B9180 are user replaceable and like on the Z3100 (same heads) they last a very long time.

About 18 months ago I collected the Euro prices per ML excl. VAT. It will have shifted meanwhile but nevertheless.

0,91 Euro per ml Epson 1400 etc (Claria) 7,4 ml = 6,47 Euro

0,73 Euro per ml HP 9180 28 ml = 20,55 Euro

0.73 Euro per ml Epson 2400 13 ml = 9,44 Euro

0,45 Euro per ml Epson 3800 80 ml = 36,30 Euro

0,45 Euro per ml Canon iPF5000 130 ml = 58,80 Euro

0,41 Euro per ml Canon iPF9000 330 ml = 135,57 Euro

0,37 Euro per ml HP Z3100 130 ml = 47,47 Euro

0,33 Euro per ml Epson 9800 110 ml = 36,38 Euro

0,32 Euro per ml Canon iPF9000 700 ml = 226,29 Euro

0,29 Euro per ml HP Z3100 twin pack 260 ml = 75,50 Euro

0,26 Euro per ml Epson 9800 220 ml = 58,09 Euro

A rough estimation (Edited): Count 1 ML per A3 size for the B9180 and check what you print in a year. A price difference of 500$ on 400 ML more ink is in my book 1.25 $ per ML. The same amount of ink in B9180 carts will cost approx 400 $ and will last longer + can be purchased when needed, this year or next year. It is only when you print the equivalent of 350 A3 or more prints that the 3800 will break even to the B9180, after that the 3800 could become cheaper.

While the 3800 is an interesting choice versus the 2880, it is less so if compared to the B9180.

Ernst Dinkla

try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

Deepsouth · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2009, 04:53:49 pm »

I have the Canon PixmaPro 9500, and while it is capable of glorious results, I agree that moving on to a 17 inch machine is the best plan. the 13 inch machines are really orphans, too costly/complicated for the guy who wants to print JPGs of his kids & pets but too small for pros and therefore not well supported by their manufacturers.

Dan Wells · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2009, 10:11:16 pm »

There are two interesting categories of "orphan" printers out there - the first is the 13 inch machines, as a previous poster mentioned. They have been orphaned by the advent of affordable 17 inch printers based on 24 inch technology (large cartridges connected by hoses instead of small cartridges riding the printhead). Once you have the hose mechanism in place (which saves a huge amount of money on ink), with the pumps and reservoirs to support it, you might as well build a bigger platen (We'll never see an "Epson 3300" or "Canon iPF4100" that uses big cartridges and ink tubing on a 13 inch printer, because it would cost almost as much as its 17-inch equivalent). The limit on how much ink a 13 inch printer can hold without a remote ink system (either built in like a larger printer or a 3rd party continuous inkflow system) is based on what the carriage can drag around - fine for an 8.5x11 inch printer, but skimpy for something that can print 3 times as large.
The second "orphan" printer design is low-volume really wide format printers. HP once built a 24 inch machine that was meant for low-volume use (the DesignJet 130), and didn't have the tanklike build quality of big industrial 24 inch printers. It was also unique among 24 inch printers in having a paper tray (albeit a 17 inch paper tray), while all other 24 inch printers are roll feed only. It was a 50 lb machine, as opposed to 150+ for any other 24 inch printer. Unfortunately, it was also a 6 color dye ink printer, and neither a pigment ink nor a higher color version of it ever existed. A version of this printer with 12 pigment inks would probably generate some interest among photographers - it wouldn't have the duty cycle of the big printers, but it could turn out a few beautiful prints without the cost or space requirements of existing wide-format printers.

-Dan

Ernst Dinkla · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2009, 03:35:35 am »

I do not see the necessity to jump to wider inkjet models when larger carts are used, it is about volume printed and not really related to print size.

Recently there's a trend to give desktop (A4, A3 size) printers larger carts, higher printing speeds and pro heads.
In the past there have been the Epson SC 5000 and the SC 5500 A3+ size with 110 ML carts (some split to 2x55 ML), more recently the HP B9180 with A3 size and 27ml carts. The two Epson office printers B-500DN and B-300 are more extreme in their A4-Letter size limit and big carts. The last are office printers meant to compete with laser printers. Durabrite ink carts available from 53 to 198 ML, the last only for black. Of course larger carts are only sensible if there is a higher volume to print, larger carts and little printing done creates issues like pigment settling, clogs.

Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

Bartone · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2009, 11:01:16 pm »

Earnst,
perhaps the larger ink carts are tied (in savings) to the larger rolls of paper (also in savings).

I really can't wait for the press release (scheduled for very early April):

Canon announces nationwide groundbreaking for underground utility pipes (twelve) for ink delivery to every home and office in the USA. Plans underway to expand service to Asia and Europe.

Think of it as, hey, kinda like and advanced version of Comcast with ink.

bartone

hsmeets · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2009, 07:44:40 am »

Hi,

When I bought a 17" printer I got it to be able to print that big. However after some weeks I started to print the images a bit smaller to create a border around the image, a faux mat, so to say. Lazy boy as I am, I now mount prints on foamcore and hang them without further matting and framing. This was an aspect of a 17" printer that did not occur to me before.

The 7"wider 24" printer was a bit too expensive at that time I bought the 17, but now in the habit of creating faux-mat's: in a few years I'll buy a 24 inch for sure :-)

If you have the $$$: go as big as your pockets allow.

jdoyle1713 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2009, 10:31:03 am »

Speaking Of printers ..If this helps Epson Just added a $400.00 Mail in Rebate for the 4880 ColorBurst edition, Extended the 200.00 Maill In rebate for the 3800 and added a 500.00 Mail in rebate for the 7900,7880,9880, & 9900.. Than a Huge 5000.00 Instant rebate on the 11880.. wow..

Just thought I would let you know..all rebates start tomorrow..

Cheers
Jim Doyle
http://www.shadesofpaper.com

Ernst Dinkla · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2009, 11:11:44 am »

Quote from: jdoyle1713

Speaking Of printers ..If this helps Epson Just added a $400.00 Mail in Rebate for the 4880 ColorBurst edition, Extended the 200.00 Maill In rebate for the 3800 and added a 500.00 Mail in rebate for the 7900,7880,9880, & 9900.. Than a Huge 5000.00 Instant rebate on the 11880.. wow..

Just thought I would let you know..all rebates start tomorrow..

Cheers
Jim Doyle
http://www.shadesofpaper.com

Jim,

The man asking for the 13" replacement would be a fool not to buy the 11880 with all the ink aboard. Think also of the extra white borders it can create around an A3 image. Why didn't we all think of that solution in the first place.

Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

jdoyle1713 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2009, 08:02:46 pm »

Quote from: Ernst Dinkla

Jim,

The man asking for the 13" replacement would be a fool not to buy the 11880 with all the ink aboard. Think also of the extra white borders it can create around an A3 image. Why didn't we all think of that solution in the first place.

Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

Enest

Thats great.. I was really pointing at the 3800 & 4880.. Just figured I would give them all out..

I will say you made me laugh after a long day!

Cheers
http://www.shadesofpaper.com

dwood · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2009, 10:39:19 pm »

I purchased an IPF-5100 from Shades of Paper about 6 months ago. With the exception of an ink tank that went south, (the chip failed) the printer has been flawless, and it produces superb results both in color and b&w. It's physically a lot larger than a 3800 but for me, the inclusion of a roll was worth the extra footprint. Worth noting, BTW, was that the folks at Canon were very responsive when I encountered the tank failure. They shipped a new 130ml version overnight at no cost. I was impressed. My only problem now is realizing that I really need to move up to a 24" printer.

Author Topic: advice - best printer 13x19 (Read 7532 times)