Help selecting paper

[camhabib]

First post here, long time reader, hope to be able to contribute even a fraction of the amount I've learned from this site and community.

As part of a project for a university art program, I am printing and framing roughly 15-20 large prints. Since I have an Epson Pro 3800, and most of the shots were taken with a 12+MP camera (D3), I figure 17x22 should be ok. Pictures will all be mounted and framed, unknown at this point if I will be mounting behind glass or not.

The problem I'm facing is in my paper selection. I spent some time looking over various paper options, but I think I walked away more confused then I went in.

Subject matter is going to vary widely, but they must all use the same paper. No portraits, but a good deal of architecture, city shots, landscapes, industrial, nature, and still life. I have ruled out a full glossy paper, as well as a canvas. Paper must come in sheets cut to size.

What I am looking for is a paper that is a smooth matte. I would like to avoid a fully textured paper, and would rather go for something more uniform. I want images to have a relaxed look, yet still retain sharpness and deffiniton. Some possible papers I have in my collection, but have yet to test, are the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl and Fine Art Pearl (neither of which actually look like a traditional pearl paper) as well as Moab Colorado Satin and Lasal Photo Matte. I have not had a chance to take a look at any of the Epson Professional papers, although I have heard excellent reviews of the Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper.

Budget for paper and ink is ~$400. I have yet to look into the price for framing, but I am expecting around $50-75 per picture.

Any suggestions you can give of papers that have worked well for you, or that perhaps you have used that I have yet to take a look at, or just any advice in general, would be welcomed.

[NikoJorj]

What I am looking for is a paper that is a smooth matte. I would like to avoid a fully textured paper, and would rather go for something more uniform. I want images to have a relaxed look, yet still retain sharpness and deffiniton. Some possible papers I have in my collection, but have yet to test, are the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl and Fine Art Pearl (neither of which actually look like a traditional pearl paper)

These 2 are quite different : Photo Rag Pearl is a matte paper that gives a subtle gloss (or rather sheen) to printed areas, quite pleasant to my eye. Quite unique, I think.
Don't overlook the "plain vanilla" Photo Rag btw : it's the same base with a small texture, simply matte without this sheen - I like it a lot.

Fine Art Pearl comes closer from a "pearl" paper - the gloss and texture is much more pronounced, and even across the image. If you like the latter, then you should dig all the "baryta-like" kind : Epson Traditional=Exhibition Fiber, Ilford Gold Fibre Silk (my current favorite choice for landscapes), Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta or Fine Art Baryta...

I don't mount pictures behind glass, both by taste and lazyness/economy, so just can't comment on how these papers look behind glass.

[Alistair]

First post here, long time reader, hope to be able to contribute even a fraction of the amount I've learned from this site and community.

As part of a project for a university art program, I am printing and framing roughly 15-20 large prints. Since I have an Epson Pro 3800, and most of the shots were taken with a 12+MP camera (D3), I figure 17x22 should be ok. Pictures will all be mounted and framed, unknown at this point if I will be mounting behind glass or not.

The problem I'm facing is in my paper selection. I spent some time looking over various paper options, but I think I walked away more confused then I went in.

Subject matter is going to vary widely, but they must all use the same paper. No portraits, but a good deal of architecture, city shots, landscapes, industrial, nature, and still life. I have ruled out a full glossy paper, as well as a canvas. Paper must come in sheets cut to size.

What I am looking for is a paper that is a smooth matte. I would like to avoid a fully textured paper, and would rather go for something more uniform. I want images to have a relaxed look, yet still retain sharpness and deffiniton. Some possible papers I have in my collection, but have yet to test, are the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl and Fine Art Pearl (neither of which actually look like a traditional pearl paper) as well as Moab Colorado Satin and Lasal Photo Matte. I have not had a chance to take a look at any of the Epson Professional papers, although I have heard excellent reviews of the Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper.

Budget for paper and ink is ~$400. I have yet to look into the price for framing, but I am expecting around $50-75 per picture.

Any suggestions you can give of papers that have worked well for you, or that perhaps you have used that I have yet to take a look at, or just any advice in general, would be welcomed.

I feel for you. There is so much choice out there at the moment. Personally, I would narrow down your choice some by making some qualifying decisions up front. Firstly, whether you really want to print with MK ink (matt paper) or PK ink (semi-gloss, gloss, pearl etc. papers). Then you need to decide whether you want warm or cool tone. Then you need to decide whether you want smooth or textured and what archival qualities you require. Go through that process and you will still have lots of choices but it will be a manageable amount. I do not know where you are but ideally you need to then go to a store that stocks lots of different papers and displays printed samples of those papers. Here in London, Silverprint are great in that regard.

At the moment you say you want smooth matte but a lot of the papers you list as ones you are evaluating are textured pearl and semi-gloss type papers so I suggest the above decisions will assist you to develop greater clarity of your needs.


 

[camhabib]

These 2 are quite different : Photo Rag Pearl is a matte paper that gives a subtle gloss (or rather sheen) to printed areas, quite pleasant to my eye. Quite unique, I think.
Don't overlook the "plain vanilla" Photo Rag btw : it's the same base with a small texture, simply matte without this sheen - I like it a lot.

Fine Art Pearl comes closer from a "pearl" paper - the gloss and texture is much more pronounced, and even across the image. If you like the latter, then you should dig all the "baryta-like" kind : Epson Traditional=Exhibition Fiber, Ilford Gold Fibre Silk (my current favorite choice for landscapes), Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta or Fine Art Baryta...

I don't mount pictures behind glass, both by taste and lazyness/economy, so just can't comment on how these papers look behind glass.

So the Exhibition is most like the Fine Art Pearl? I liked the Fine Art Pearl because it looked like a matte but had just a touch of gloss to it to make the colors pop.

How much does it run you to just get the prints just mounted with a simple frame - just to get an idea.

[NikoJorj]

So the Exhibition is most like the Fine Art Pearl? I liked the Fine Art Pearl because it looked like a matte but had just a touch of gloss to it to make the colors pop.

Exhibition is (much) glossier than FineArtPearl, which itself is glossier than PhotoRagPearl. Your description "looked like a matte but had just a touch of gloss to it to make the colors pop" applies more to the latter for me, but these are questions of taste, aren't they?

How much does it run you to just get the prints just mounted with a simple frame - just to get an idea.

A few $ for a white, grey or cream backing cardboard (18x24" for a 13x19" print) and a piece of cardboard smaller than the print to make it float on the matte, plus a bit of archival glue (I use 3M spray).
Requires care while handling, because the print dents quite easily (they're not protected and stand out of the matte), but it pleases me while keeping it simple.

[PeterAit]

First post here, long time reader, hope to be able to contribute even a fraction of the amount I've learned from this site and community.

As part of a project for a university art program, I am printing and framing roughly 15-20 large prints. Since I have an Epson Pro 3800, and most of the shots were taken with a 12+MP camera (D3), I figure 17x22 should be ok. Pictures will all be mounted and framed, unknown at this point if I will be mounting behind glass or not.

The problem I'm facing is in my paper selection. I spent some time looking over various paper options, but I think I walked away more confused then I went in.

Subject matter is going to vary widely, but they must all use the same paper. No portraits, but a good deal of architecture, city shots, landscapes, industrial, nature, and still life. I have ruled out a full glossy paper, as well as a canvas. Paper must come in sheets cut to size.

What I am looking for is a paper that is a smooth matte. I would like to avoid a fully textured paper, and would rather go for something more uniform. I want images to have a relaxed look, yet still retain sharpness and deffiniton. Some possible papers I have in my collection, but have yet to test, are the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl and Fine Art Pearl (neither of which actually look like a traditional pearl paper) as well as Moab Colorado Satin and Lasal Photo Matte. I have not had a chance to take a look at any of the Epson Professional papers, although I have heard excellent reviews of the Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper.

Budget for paper and ink is ~$400. I have yet to look into the price for framing, but I am expecting around $50-75 per picture.

Any suggestions you can give of papers that have worked well for you, or that perhaps you have used that I have yet to take a look at, or just any advice in general, would be welcomed.

The Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper is really excellent but it costs a bundle - 17 x 22 is $8 a sheet at list price! I highly recommend Epson Premium Luster Photo Paper. The whites are not quite as brilliant is EFP (which I think uses a brightener) but it is a lot cheaper and has what I think is a lovely finish.

Peter

[Peter McLennan]

The Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper is really excellent but it costs a bundle - 17 x 22 is $8 a sheet at list price! I highly recommend Epson Premium Luster Photo Paper. The whites are not quite as brilliant is EFP (which I think uses a brightener) but it is a lot cheaper and has what I think is a lovely finish.

Peter

'


I now print everything on this stock.

http://www.inkjetart.com/cart/press-print-...3_937_1021.html

Epson 4800 printer, MIS Ultrachrome equivalent inks with a Cathy's Profiles profile.

Once it's framed, I can't tell the difference between this and much more expensive matte papers.  Nobody complains about the print quality.  

[Geoff Wittig]

The Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper is really excellent but it costs a bundle - 17 x 22 is $8 a sheet at list price! I highly recommend Epson Premium Luster Photo Paper. The whites are not quite as brilliant is EFP (which I think uses a brightener) but it is a lot cheaper and has what I think is a lovely finish.

Peter

I quite agree. If you're under any kind of deadline pressure I wouldn't recommend experimenting. It makes sense to pick a paper that will give you excellent repeatable image quality and get to work. Epson Premium luster is affordable, it provides a terrific gamut and d-max with Epson K3 inkset, and Epson's canned profiles are pretty darned good. The only downside is a fine stippled surface texture which can be unpleasant in reflected light, but if you're in control of lighting you can avoid this. For what it's worth, Pete Turner's exhibition last year at George Eastman House was printed on this paper and looked fabulous. The prints were framed behind glass and lit from above, so reflections weren't an issue.

If you're looking for an actual matte cotton rag paper, try Epson's premium ultrasmooth fine art. The surface is quite smooth for a cotton rag paper, without the texture of something like Hahnemuhle Photo rag. The paper base is a bit warm, but that's okay for many images. Or save a bundle and print on Epson enhanced matte (AKA "ultrapremium presentation matte, or whatever they're calling it this week); slightly brighter white, very high image quality, and dirt cheap for the quality.

Epson exhibition fiber, Hahnemuhle photo rag pearl & photo rag baryta, Crane silver rag, Harman FB AI, Ilford gold fiber silk....these are various papers in the 'fiber/gloss' category that try to mimic traditional photographic papers. Most of us have our preferences, but it can take you quite a while (and lots of money) figuring out which appeals to you. Epson exibition fiber and Harman FB AI are really glossy if that's what you're looking for; photo rag pearl and photo rag baryta I really like for my own work. I'm fascinated by the way photographers disagree so strongly about which is the "best"; no accounting for taste.

Good luck! Picking the perfect paper is a fun 'problem' to have.

[camhabib]

Thanks again for all the replies, they're really helped me narrow my choices. I have no budget or time constrains really. This project is part of a scientific photography project, of which I have been given a grant of up to some unnecessarily high amount, which I could not hit even if I bought full reams of all these papers with a new printer to boot. I also have until the summer to complete this (July), so plenty of time to play.

After doing some looking around, I've limited the papers I have on hand (almost all Hahnemuhle, Moab, and Ilford papers currently in production) down to Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl and Ilford Gold Fiber Silk. The Photo Rag had a bit too much of a warm tone for me, and test images on both the FAP and PRP showed the FAP to have a higher dMax to my eyes. I have yet to run any images on the Ilford Gold.

As far as the Exhibition Fiber goes, so far I've heard it is more glossy then the Ilford Gold as well as less glossy. Since I haven't had a chance to pick some up yet, someone will have to compare the two for me and give me a definitive answer.

[NikoJorj]

As far as the Exhibition Fiber goes, so far I've heard it is more glossy then the Ilford Gold as well as less glossy. Since I haven't had a chance to pick some up yet, someone will have to compare the two for me and give me a definitive answer.

I'd say the Exhibition is a small tad more glossy... but not far - there is a bit more difference in texture than in glossiness I'd say.
Quite similar for surface aspect, if you need a bottom line.  

Ink appearance and paper white show much more difference BTW (Exhibition is whiter and a bit cooler than GoldFibre to my taste).

[PeterAit]

'


I now print everything on this stock.

http://www.inkjetart.com/cart/press-print-...3_937_1021.html

Epson 4800 printer, MIS Ultrachrome equivalent inks with a Cathy's Profiles profile.

Once it's framed, I can't tell the difference between this and much more expensive matte papers.  Nobody complains about the print quality.

You mention Cathy's Profiles - do you find an advantage of these over the Epson-provided profiles? I use a 4880 and am looking for any improvements I can find!

Thanks,

Peter

[howardm]

since his inks are non-OEM, my hunch is that custom profiles are basically a requirement.

Cathy's, Ricks or Eric Chan do lowcost custom profiles.