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Author Topic: Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement  (Read 5997 times)

NikosR

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« on: February 09, 2009, 01:57:11 am »

Predictable: 35mm fast AF-S prime. Surprising: DX
Nikon are going after the 30mm 1.4 Sigma.

Cheapish lens will be welcomed by the Nikon low-end dSLR crowd. 'Proper' SWM motor, 1 aspheric element, metal mount, 52mm filter. No focus distance scale, apparently.

http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Pr...f%252F1.8G.html
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 02:06:54 am by NikosR »
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Dustbak

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2009, 02:14:57 am »

I much rather had a AFS 28/1.4 or AFS 85/1.4
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NikosR

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2009, 02:22:44 am »

Quote from: Dustbak
I much rather had a AFS 28/1.4 or AFS 85/1.4


Surely those wouldn't be going for 200 bucks
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JeffKohn

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2009, 02:28:18 pm »

This would have been a welcome release 3-4 years ago, but it's a bit underwhelming now as more and more people are either moving to full-frame, or at least contemplating it as a future option and therefore avoiding DX lens purchases.
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arashm

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2009, 04:51:58 pm »

Quote from: JeffKohn
This would have been a welcome release 3-4 years ago, but it's a bit underwhelming now as more and more people are either moving to full-frame, or at least contemplating it as a future option and therefore avoiding DX lens purchases.


I totally agree... this lens should have been on the D2x when it was announced, I think a lot of people buying D90 and D300's are in the mind set of one day going FF so why invest in DX ( I know it's only $200...but)
anyways, only Nikon knows.... I think!
am
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 04:52:58 pm by arashm »
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BJL

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2009, 05:31:16 pm »

This announcement can only be surprising to those who mistakenly believe that 35mm format DSLR systems are anywhere close to eliminating the market for DX format amongst photographic enthusiasts. That is, those who believe that there will soon enough be nothing better than entry-level snap-shooting gear offered in APS-C and smaller formats.

Just put the US price of $200 for this 25/1.8 DX lens against the prices of all 35mm format DSLR bodies and you should be able to see why there is a market for lenses like this amongst photographers who
- want a fast normal prime lens, but
- are unable or unwilling to pay the price of 35mm format digital. Another hint would be the recent release and sales success of "enthusiast and lower budget professional" models like the Nikon D90 and D300, and the Canon 50D.

My thanks to Nikon for making it a bit clearer that the introduction of FX is not a move away from DX, but just an expansion of our options.


P. S. The idea that anyone would worry about spending $200 on a DX lens just because they might later change format as is very dubious: apart from the vast majority of DSLR buyers staying with the smaller formats, the loss on reselling a $200 DX lens would be a small part of the total cost of the change to a 35mm format system. My guess is that overwhelmingly, people choose the lenses that work best with the camera they have now, not for compatibility with a possible future camera purchase in a different format.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 05:38:37 pm by BJL »
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JohnKoerner

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2009, 10:19:59 pm »

Very good post BJL.

I think many professional photographers forget that most people who are going to be buying cameras are NOT professional photographers. Most people are not going to want to spend $4,000-$8,000 on a camera back and $1,000-$2,000 on a lens. Most people are going to want to spend $800-$1,500 on a back and $250-$800 on a lens.

Your same reasoning applies to the Canon EF-S lenses. I have heard people moan about these because they won't work on a FF back. Well, that's good, they're not designed to. They're designed to give reasonable quality for users of crop lenses.

Your statement, "My thanks to Nikon for making it a bit clearer that the introduction of FX is not a move away from DX, but just an expansion of our options," is a bullseye ...



.
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Ken Bennett

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2009, 11:08:30 am »

Agreed, this is a great move for Nikon. There are millions of users out there with D-40/50/60 bodies, and this is an affordable fast normal prime lens made just for them.

Had Nikon made this a full-frame lens it would be three times as large, four times as heavy, and cost five times as much. They might have made the FX crowd happy, but they would have sold one-tenth or fewer as many lenses.
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GregW

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2009, 12:31:06 pm »

It might sound odd - my primary body is a D3 - but I'm very pleased to see this lens. A couple of years ago I wasn't able to find a suitable point and shoot. I ended up opting for the very compact D40x. The new AF-S DX NIKKOR 35mm f/1.8G will combine with the D40x to make a very high quality compact camera.
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JamesA

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2009, 07:15:49 pm »

Quote from: NikosR
Surely those wouldn't be going for 200 bucks

Well, according to them, 80% of their sales are D40s, 60s and 90s.  Factor in (at least) another 15% for the D300 and you've got a "whopping" 5% who are into FF.  Not exactly huge yet.
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mike.online

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2009, 07:27:08 pm »

after shooting with the canon 50mm f/1.8 ($130CAD) I wish they had made a EF 35mm (50mm equivalent on aps-c) at the same price point. However I wouldn't buy it if it were an EFS (aps-c) specific lens.

interesting side note, I mentioned this lens to a friend who is shooting with a nikon aps-c body, and they decided to buy the lens without blinking an eye.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 07:31:37 pm by mike.online »
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BJL

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2009, 09:42:34 am »

Quote from: mike.online
after shooting with the canon 50mm f/1.8 ($130CAD) I wish they had made a EF 35mm (50mm equivalent on aps-c) at the same price point. However I wouldn't buy it if it were an EFS (aps-c) specific lens.
Do you realize how much more difficult and expensive a 35mm design for 35mm format is than a 35mm for EF-S or DX format? The 42mm frame diagonal of 35mm format requires a wide-angle 62º field coverage, while the roughly 28mm image diagonal of DX and EF-S formats requires only a "narrow normal" 44º coverage, making good optical performance far easier to achieve.

In fact that rather narrow 44º FOV is my main grievance with this lens; SLR normals are already a bit narrow compared to the more traditional "normals" favored with range-finders, TLR's and view cameras, due to optical constraints of the reflex mirror assembly on the minimum focal length possible with symmetric lens designs. The historical baggage of using lens mount dimensions designed for 35mm film format in the "APS-C" DLSR's is a hindrance here.

As a comparison, the new Nikon 35/1.8 for DX format costs about half as much as the 35/2 for 35mm format, despite being brighter, optically superior (at least according to Nikon) and with faster AF due to its Silent Wave motor.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 09:43:13 am by BJL »
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Ken Bennett

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2009, 03:21:36 pm »

Quote from: mike.online
after shooting with the canon 50mm f/1.8 ($130CAD) I wish they had made a EF 35mm (50mm equivalent on aps-c) at the same price point. However I wouldn't buy it if it were an EFS (aps-c) specific lens.


Canon already makes the EF 28/1.8 lens, which is actually quite good, and provides a slightly wide normal lens on the APS-C Canon cameras (40-D, etc.) It also functions nicely as a wide angle lens on full frame cameras, or as a ~35mm equivalent on the 1-D series bodies. Of course, it's also $420 new.
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Rickard Hansson

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2009, 04:51:48 pm »

Quote from: JeffKohn
This would have been a welcome release 3-4 years ago, but it's a bit underwhelming now as more and more people are either moving to full-frame, or at least contemplating it as a future option and therefore avoiding DX lens purchases.

That is a very small percentage of all DX users that actually are thinking about FF cameras and therefor also FF lenses.
DX is an segment many times larger than FX/FF for nikon and there will be an hugh sale of this new lens.


I can even think that some resellers will bundle it with cameras and have some attractive bundle price for it.
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mike.online

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2009, 06:31:45 pm »

Quote from: BJL
Do you realize how much more difficult and expensive a 35mm design for 35mm format is than a 35mm for EF-S or DX format? The 42mm frame diagonal of 35mm format requires a wide-angle 62º field coverage, while the roughly 28mm image diagonal of DX and EF-S formats requires only a "narrow normal" 44º coverage, making good optical performance far easier to achieve.

In fact that rather narrow 44º FOV is my main grievance with this lens; SLR normals are already a bit narrow compared to the more traditional "normals" favored with range-finders, TLR's and view cameras, due to optical constraints of the reflex mirror assembly on the minimum focal length possible with symmetric lens designs. The historical baggage of using lens mount dimensions designed for 35mm film format in the "APS-C" DLSR's is a hindrance here.

As a comparison, the new Nikon 35/1.8 for DX format costs about half as much as the 35/2 for 35mm format, despite being brighter, optically superior (at least according to Nikon) and with faster AF due to its Silent Wave motor.

interesting, i did not know that. however, it does make sense though. the sensor size differences would be a significant factor, thanks for bringing it to my attention. i'm not sure what you mean by normals though. could you explain?

mike.online

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2009, 06:38:36 pm »

Quote from: k bennett
Canon already makes the EF 28/1.8 lens, which is actually quite good, and provides a slightly wide normal lens on the APS-C Canon cameras (40-D, etc.) It also functions nicely as a wide angle lens on full frame cameras, or as a ~35mm equivalent on the 1-D series bodies. Of course, it's also $420 new.

sounds like a decent enough lens. however, if i'm buying more wide angle glass that isn't super cheap, i would likely get a wide zoom (17-40 f/4, or the 16-35 f/2.8). They cost a fair bit more than $420 however ($850 and $1700 respectively).

JeffKohn

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Nikon's suprising but predictable lens anouncement
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2009, 03:12:45 pm »

Quote
That is a very small percentage of all DX users that actually are thinking about FF cameras and therefor also FF lenses.
Maybe. But of those millions and millions of DX users with no interest in upgrading to full-frame (even once it eventually gets much cheaper than it is today), I wonder how many have any interest in buying a prime lens, or any additional lenses for that matter. Most of those users will never use anything other than the standard 18-55 kit lens, unless maybe they add the complementary 55-200 telephoto kit lens.

I'm not saying this isn't a useful lens for DX, I just think it would have been really smart for them to release it 3-4 years ago for all the D2h/x and D70/etc users.
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Jeff Kohn
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Rickard Hansson

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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2009, 05:02:13 pm »

Quote from: JeffKohn
Maybe. But of those millions and millions of DX users with no interest in upgrading to full-frame (even once it eventually gets much cheaper than it is today), I wonder how many have any interest in buying a prime lens, or any additional lenses for that matter. Most of those users will never use anything other than the standard 18-55 kit lens, unless maybe they add the complementary 55-200 telephoto kit lens.

I'm not saying this isn't a useful lens for DX, I just think it would have been really smart for them to release it 3-4 years ago for all the D2h/x and D70/etc users.


But you are forgettting all the poeple with DX cameras that cannot use anything else than AF-S lenses, like the d40, d40x and D60. These will more than welcome the new lenses. May them be released today or 3 years ago. This lens will of course be of interest for all the D80, D90, D200 and D300 users as well :-)
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