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KevinA

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« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2009, 05:33:01 am »

Quote from: joedecker
No worries.    

--Joe

A couple of crops showing the problem.
each 1/1600th at 90mm on a 70 -200mm f2.8

Kevin
[attachment=11380:Oxford__...25_32518.jpg]
[attachment=11379:Oxford__...25_32511.jpg]
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KevinA

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« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2009, 05:41:27 am »

Quote from: eronald
My D3x has a tendency to pick up high-contrast subjects close to the selected focus point and then back-focus slightly.

CONCERNING THE AERIALS, something in the Canon sensors in the 1DII required shooting at higher speeds to freeze action. This was told me by CPS, action shooters were having issues. Possibly this issue persists on later models.

That's interesting and somewhat strange, what could possible make a sensor record more movement than the amount it is exposed to the image?

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KevinA

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« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2009, 05:58:28 am »

Quote from: KevinA
That's interesting and somewhat strange, what could possible make a sensor record more movement than the amount it is exposed to the image?

Kevin

Just to show it's other lenses also heres a 28mm at 1/1250th, others are sharp and some less soft, the percentage of wrong'uns is to high.

Kevin.[attachment=11381:Oxford__...25_32477.jpg]
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eronald

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« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2009, 12:20:43 pm »

Quote from: KevinA
That's interesting and somewhat strange, what could possible make a sensor record more movement than the amount it is exposed to the image?

Kevin

No one could figure out the reasons, and Canon Inc wsn't talking, but CPS was telling people to move to higher shutter speeds to freeze action. I supsect electronic shutter and in-pixel noise reduction is used in some combination with the mechanical shutter. I'm not sure which part of shuttering is realy mechanical.


Edmund
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 12:24:47 pm by eronald »
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eronald

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« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2009, 12:26:53 pm »

I'm thinking of setting up slight front-focus deliberately to combat this. Front focused images usally look better anyway, and the DOF reaches more to the back, I hear.
Focus on the eye, get some eyelashes - still looks ok.


Edmund

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Damn! I new it wasn't me. I've noticed that when doing people photography and I want the eye to have equal font and back focus, but it's usually one or the other, and it pisses me off.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 12:29:30 pm by eronald »
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joedecker

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« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2009, 02:05:47 pm »

Quote from: KevinA
A couple of crops showing the problem.
each 1/1600th at 90mm on a 70 -200mm f2.8

Sure looks out of focus (focus point closer than any object?) to me.

--j
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eronald

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« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2009, 02:13:45 pm »

Best Raw processor ? At the moment I find C1 much better than RD. I can make some C1 profiles if people want them.

Edmund
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Ken R

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« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2009, 01:05:37 am »

Hi,

I recently "calibrated" all of my lenses using the microadjustment feature on the custom function set. (Canon 1Ds mark III)

It worked beautifully. Only ONE lens was spot on. (my 17-40L, tack sharp even at f4). And another (the old 50mm macro was close). All others I had to use +8 to +10 for best results. I used a variety of focal distances, focal lengths (on the zooms) and subjects to make the adjustment. I used a tripod and a remote realease for consistent results. I also took photos around the house to check focus more casually. I used all lenses wide open.

I noticed some lenses are quite inconsistent in their AF specially the 50mm f1,4 and the Sigma 12-24mm. All other lenses, once adjustments were made were consistently spot on.

The adjustments made a HUGE improvement in AF performance even at infinity on distant subjects. It was quite evident with the 85mm f1.2L. Without the adjustment I focused on the landscape outside my apartment balcony and the image was out of focus noticably even though there was good light and good contrast. After the adjustment the same landscape was tack sharp whe i zoomed in the image.
As you decrease focal lengths (and or subject distance) and use smaller (numerically higher) appertures the increase in image sharpness is more subtle but still there.

I performed the main tests for adjustments indoors at 3 distances, about 8m, 3m and 1m or less (using close to minimum focus on each lens). I made sure the camera was level and sensor parallel to target. At close distances the subject was at an angle to more precisely see the degree of fornt or backfocus present. I checked back and forth between zero adjustment and images with the lens adjusted. I used the camera on JPG L with sharpening set to 6.

I used the following procedure:

First AF (center point only, single shot), check focus distance on lens, turn on Live View, focus manually, check distance, notice difference, make microadjustment and use AF, adjust setting until the focus distance is identical to the best MF result using the AF. It takes a few tries but it isnt too bad.

I found out that with most lenses you can calibrate focusing on a high contrast subject at short distances, make an adjustment and the adjustment is valid at all focusing distances. For some reason with the 50mm f1.4 and Sigma 12-24 I adjusted at one distance, moved to another and the adjustement had to be changed a bit for best result. I then returned to the initial distance and a slightly different adjustment was necesary than the first try at that same distance. I setled on a happy medium.

I knew my 70-200mm f2.8L IS was a tad off from experience in the field and I had compensated a bit by sometimes focusing a tad closer and or using f4-f8 instead of f2.8, specially at 200mm. My 24-70mm 2.8 was pretty bad at 70mm requiring +10. Now its quite good at 70mm f2.8. I noticed that if the lens is microadjusted at any focal length it is spot on at all zoom settings. It is easier though and recommended to do the adjustment at the longest focal length. It was anoying and I did have to trash some images and others were not as sharp as they could be. With the 100mm macro i had not notice since i use that lens most of the time at f11 with strobes. Same with the 50mm macro. With the 85mm it was frustrating specially at f1.2 on the mark III, it worked well on the mark II however. Focus was always off and quite noticable. My 17-40L was always sharp and the test confirmed what i knew from my experience using it.

(I tested the Sigma 12-24, Canon 70-200f2.8L IS, 24-70f2.8L, 17-40f4L, 50mm macro, 100mm macro, 85mm f1.2L, 50mm f1.4.)

Take the time and try to do this with your camera and lenses. It is well worth it. You will most likely get sharper, most consistent results. I found out the 1Ds Mark III was quite consistent and once adjusted AF worked very very precisely like it should even in low light.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 01:10:00 am by sneakyracer »
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pfigen

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« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2009, 01:55:43 am »

I spent an hour in and around downtown L.A. the week before last in a JetRanger shooting with two 1DsMKIII's, a 70-200f/4IS and a 24-70. I double-checked the Micro-Adjust before going up and all I can say is that the images are unbelievably sharp. Most were shot at f/8 with IS on and ranging from 1/250th to 1/3000th or so. The posted shots here just look out of focus to me. Not at all what I'm used to seeing. The MKIII has been the best focusing camera I've ever used, in the air or on the ground.
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KevinA

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« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2009, 05:53:01 am »

Quote from: sneakyracer
Hi,

I recently "calibrated" all of my lenses using the microadjustment feature on the custom function set. (Canon 1Ds mark III)

It worked beautifully. Only ONE lens was spot on. (my 17-40L, tack sharp even at f4). And another (the old 50mm macro was close). All others I had to use +8 to +10 for best results. I used a variety of focal distances, focal lengths (on the zooms) and subjects to make the adjustment. I used a tripod and a remote realease for consistent results. I also took photos around the house to check focus more casually. I used all lenses wide open.

I noticed some lenses are quite inconsistent in their AF specially the 50mm f1,4 and the Sigma 12-24mm. All other lenses, once adjustments were made were consistently spot on.

The adjustments made a HUGE improvement in AF performance even at infinity on distant subjects. It was quite evident with the 85mm f1.2L. Without the adjustment I focused on the landscape outside my apartment balcony and the image was out of focus noticably even though there was good light and good contrast. After the adjustment the same landscape was tack sharp whe i zoomed in the image.
As you decrease focal lengths (and or subject distance) and use smaller (numerically higher) appertures the increase in image sharpness is more subtle but still there.

I performed the main tests for adjustments indoors at 3 distances, about 8m, 3m and 1m or less (using close to minimum focus on each lens). I made sure the camera was level and sensor parallel to target. At close distances the subject was at an angle to more precisely see the degree of fornt or backfocus present. I checked back and forth between zero adjustment and images with the lens adjusted. I used the camera on JPG L with sharpening set to 6.

I used the following procedure:

First AF (center point only, single shot), check focus distance on lens, turn on Live View, focus manually, check distance, notice difference, make microadjustment and use AF, adjust setting until the focus distance is identical to the best MF result using the AF. It takes a few tries but it isnt too bad.

I found out that with most lenses you can calibrate focusing on a high contrast subject at short distances, make an adjustment and the adjustment is valid at all focusing distances. For some reason with the 50mm f1.4 and Sigma 12-24 I adjusted at one distance, moved to another and the adjustement had to be changed a bit for best result. I then returned to the initial distance and a slightly different adjustment was necesary than the first try at that same distance. I setled on a happy medium.

I knew my 70-200mm f2.8L IS was a tad off from experience in the field and I had compensated a bit by sometimes focusing a tad closer and or using f4-f8 instead of f2.8, specially at 200mm. My 24-70mm 2.8 was pretty bad at 70mm requiring +10. Now its quite good at 70mm f2.8. I noticed that if the lens is microadjusted at any focal length it is spot on at all zoom settings. It is easier though and recommended to do the adjustment at the longest focal length. It was anoying and I did have to trash some images and others were not as sharp as they could be. With the 100mm macro i had not notice since i use that lens most of the time at f11 with strobes. Same with the 50mm macro. With the 85mm it was frustrating specially at f1.2 on the mark III, it worked well on the mark II however. Focus was always off and quite noticable. My 17-40L was always sharp and the test confirmed what i knew from my experience using it.

(I tested the Sigma 12-24, Canon 70-200f2.8L IS, 24-70f2.8L, 17-40f4L, 50mm macro, 100mm macro, 85mm f1.2L, 50mm f1.4.)

Take the time and try to do this with your camera and lenses. It is well worth it. You will most likely get sharper, most consistent results. I found out the 1Ds Mark III was quite consistent and once adjusted AF worked very very precisely like it should even in low light.

Thanks for this when it comes back and they say it's within limits I'll try the micro adjust. The reason I did not try it is it's sharp on close range subjects, I thought that micro adjustment might mess up everything. I really want this to be tack sharp. Does microadjustment need revisiting from time to time or is it do it once and forget about it?
The samples I posted were from a flight were hardly anything was sharp, I have had a better success rate since then but still with more than I think acceptable un-sharp images thrown in. It's the hit and miss that worries me, I can't pin it down to any condition like against the light or high or low contrast or camera setting.
I think the microadjust would be worth ago, thinking about it it could only improve things, then again Canon might find a fault. One thing did cross my mind is the anti dust shake routine, does that mean the sensor isn't fixed solid, could it come to rest at slightly different places?

Kevin.

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BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2009, 05:57:46 am »

Quote from: eronald
Best Raw processor ? At the moment I find C1 much better than RD. I can make some C1 profiles if people want them.

Edmund

Sure, I'd be interested.

Cheers,
Bernard

David Anderson

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« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2009, 08:23:27 am »

Hi Kevin,

Surprised you haven't done any micro adjustment -

On my DsIII's and lenses it seems to stay calibrated once it's done, though getting it right has involved a lot of trial and error.

I have a chart printed to A2 with a scale on one saide and a focus point on the other (can email it to you if you want to print your own) and it's fairly clear when a lens is out, and it's normally obvious even on the screen.

The lenses are tested at the sort of distances I work at and interestingly, both bodies have produced different numbers with the same lenses.

The biggest adjustment was +17, but the lens (an 85 1.2) is as sharp as anything now at any distance.

Cheers.




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KevinA

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« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2009, 09:28:57 am »

Quote from: David Anderson
Hi Kevin,

Surprised you haven't done any micro adjustment -

On my DsIII's and lenses it seems to stay calibrated once it's done, though getting it right has involved a lot of trial and error.

I have a chart printed to A2 with a scale on one saide and a focus point on the other (can email it to you if you want to print your own) and it's fairly clear when a lens is out, and it's normally obvious even on the screen.

The lenses are tested at the sort of distances I work at and interestingly, both bodies have produced different numbers with the same lenses.

The biggest adjustment was +17, but the lens (an 85 1.2) is as sharp as anything now at any distance.

Cheers.

Like I said, I thought it would mess up other distances and it does give sharp results more than not, so I thought not a calibration issue. I'm assuming if it's not calibrated properly it would never give sharp results, right?

Kevin.
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Ken R

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« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2009, 12:05:26 pm »

Hi, I dont know if I have to re check the adjustments from time to time. I sure hope not but if my gear gets knocked aorund a bit while travelling I will check focus accuracy casually at the very least. Either way its a good idea to quickly check focus before any job and even during jobs I check that focus is spot on. I knew the lenses were off even before I performed any formal test, i just worked around it to get desired results.

The AF was off even when focusing on subjects at or near infinity. That suprised me since I though that DOF at the increased subject distance would take care of it. But no, in fact, with the 85mm 1.2L I saw a huge improvement in distant subject sharpness when using wide appertures and AF.  The thing is when up close some defocusing of the subject is expected and the focus falls on some part of the subject. When shooting subjects far away EVERYTHING is uniformly soft. Makes sense.
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David Anderson

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« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2009, 04:48:01 pm »

Quote from: KevinA
Like I said, I thought it would mess up other distances and it does give sharp results more than not, so I thought not a calibration issue. I'm assuming if it's not calibrated properly it would never give sharp results, right?

To be honest, I don't know because what your doing with your camera and what I shoot with mine are very different.

But it makes it would make sense that if your lens is front focusing it's not going to hit infinity.

In my experience with the AF and micro adjustments the more a lens is out the more the focus jumps around while once calibrated they seem much more consistent.

On portraits with the 85 at wider apertures it would have gone from 30% sharp to about 80% once calibrated.
(some of both those numbers would come down to my focusing errors  )

The 85 is something like +15 and has the biggest adjustment of my lenses, with most being around +/- 3-7, though it now produces VERY sharp pictures.







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« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2009, 07:06:03 am »

I never calibrated my lenses but i have really amazing results with my 1Ds MarkIII, so i don't know what problems others having with any Canon gear, i don't have any problem with any of my Canon gear until i started to read websites on the net then i found many got issues with their photography equipments in image quality or something else, so then i started to worry if i have issue or just i make myself a blind.
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KevinA

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« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2009, 02:21:58 pm »

Quote from: Professional
I never calibrated my lenses but i have really amazing results with my 1Ds MarkIII, so i don't know what problems others having with any Canon gear, i don't have any problem with any of my Canon gear until i started to read websites on the net then i found many got issues with their photography equipments in image quality or something else, so then i started to worry if i have issue or just i make myself a blind.

Camera came back today accompanied with a A4 sheet of paper with the "adjustment" box ticked. Not sure what has been adjusted. Today is an awful day here, infinity is to far away to see clearly. I did take some handheld shots across the field from my bedroom window. I'm thinking right now a big improvement. I'll need to do more but it looks good so far.
I'm also thinking micro adjustment is not needed either with my 70-200.

Kevin.
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KevinA

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« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2009, 02:40:52 pm »

Quote from: KevinA
Camera came back today accompanied with a A4 sheet of paper with the "adjustment" box ticked. Not sure what has been adjusted. Today is an awful day here, infinity is to far away to see clearly. I did take some handheld shots across the field from my bedroom window. I'm thinking right now a big improvement. I'll need to do more but it looks good so far.
I'm also thinking micro adjustment is not needed either with my 70-200.

Kevin.

Hay if anyone spots any socks flying past they are most likely mine, 'cos mine just got blown off. So this is what 21mp's looks like when they are sharp, I played around with micro adjust today, waste of time it's spot on without the tinkering. Kind of confirms what I have thought about microadjustment, a cop out for slack building. Now mine is adjusted properly the micro adjustment is of no use.
A couple of praises for Canon, thanks for the under two week turn around and thanks for fixing the problem. This is one h ell of a camera now.

Kevin.
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« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2009, 01:34:16 am »

I tested my 1DS3 soon after I got it using the LCD screen pattern test where you shoot the screen of a LCD monitor with the image on it. It's somewhere here in our threads. All of my lenses were perfect. No adjustment needed. I have since sent in my camera for the decreased "Cannot communicate with the lens" defect. Maybe I should recalibrate and see if everything is tight still. Can anyone dig up that LCD calibration test link? That's the one you all need to be using anyway. I can't remember why, but it was the one to use when I used it.
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eronald

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« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2009, 02:42:50 am »

Quote from: dwdallam
I tested my 1DS3 soon after I got it using the LCD screen pattern test where you shoot the screen of a LCD monitor with the image on it. It's somewhere here in our threads. All of my lenses were perfect. No adjustment needed. I have since sent in my camera for the decreased "Cannot communicate with the lens" defect. Maybe I should recalibrate and see if everything is tight still. Can anyone dig up that LCD calibration test link? That's the one you all need to be using anyway. I can't remember why, but it was the one to use when I used it.

Focus adjustment test description and link is on my blog.

http://pronikond.blogspot.com/2009/02/fine...-for-focus.html


Edmund
« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 03:21:00 am by eronald »
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