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John Camp

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straw man
« on: February 04, 2009, 01:37:59 pm »

The quality/value thread is interesting and entertaining, but one thing that clogs it up (and clogs up lots of other threads) is "straw man" arguments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

These are arguments where somebody incorrectly restates somebody else's point, and then disagrees with it, and then the first person comes back and says, "That's not what I said," and we get fifteen posts about who said what. For example, Michael never really said that a G10 is as good as a P45+, or that DxO marks are useless, or that an A900 is absolutely as good as a D3x in all ways...

If somebody makes a point about his experience, and you recast it in terms of *your* experience, you may have set up a straw man: somebody in the discussion said that he needed to use MFDB is his business to be competitive, and somebody else said (in effect), "That's incorrect, because I have a business and don't need them," and that's a straw man, because the businesses are different.

The problem with straw man arguments is that they are pointless, and aggravating, and cause people to repost the same point they already posted once, in an attempt to clarify, and you get these long, pointless inane arguments that never go anywhere, and make it difficult to read the threads.

JC



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Gordon Buck

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straw man
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2009, 04:56:15 pm »

Good points and thanks for pointing to the Wiki article.  The 'straw man' is perhaps one of the main reasons that the quality or usefulness of a forum discussion thread deteriorates so rapidly after the first couple of dozen or so responses.  You can almost cull your reading list by skipping topics with a large number of responses -- a shame because it should be the opposite.
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Gordon
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dchew

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straw man
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2009, 05:34:32 pm »

Thanks for posting John.

What I find interesting is that after the first straw-man is created by one side, the second side adopts its own opposing straw-man.  The argument then gets to a point where an outside observer realizes that the original parties actually believe the same thing, but they continue arguing positions that neither side represent.

Then the spiral...

Dave Chew
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Rob C

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straw man
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2009, 04:30:58 am »

The answer to straw men resides in Guy Fawkes.

Rob C

Ray

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straw man
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2009, 07:55:24 am »

Quote from: Rob C
The answer to straw men resides in Guy Fawkes.

Rob C

Eh! You mean we should blow up the British Houses of Parliament??
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Rob C

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straw man
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2009, 10:59:31 am »

Quote from: Ray
Eh! You mean we should blow up the British Houses of Parliament??



Perhaps not a bad idea for different reasons, but I´d just stay with the bonfires for now!

Rob C
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