Difference between P+ and P backs

[clawery]

Chris,

Steve was talking about the P65+ being "Resistant to color shifts with technical cameras". If you could run some tests specifically for this?

Kumar

Kumar,

I will see what we can do to get a test for you ASAP.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell  
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[jklotz]

Kumar,

I will see what we can do to get a test for you ASAP.


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Hi Chris,

I'd be most interesting in seeing those results too.

Thanks!

[eleanorbrown]

Steve I have a question regarding the color shifts with the backs.  With my P25 I had definite color shifts on the sides and corners of my files with normal lenses when shooting lots of whites and highlights such as snow scenes,   skys, white sands, etc.  With the P45 this problem was better but not gone and with my current P45+ this issue is still there.  I noticed this on  some files shot in antarctica...one corner would be slightly magenta the other corner/side very slightly green.  This is very subtle and in many cases you have to really look for it,  but nevertheless present even with normal focal length lenses.  What has Phase done with their P65+ to eliminate this color shift problem with regular normal non shift/tilt lenses?  many thanks again, Eleanor

We're working on an awful lot of things...

I don't want to over-promise. But currently, this is what the P65+ can do:

*60.5 or 15 Megapixels
*ISO 50 - 1600
*60 frames per minute
*Resistant to color shifts with technical cameras
*Effective Full Frame 645

The beauty is that what it can do currently has the potential of being enhanced via firmware. And who knows what else we'll come up with? We haven't had anything like this before.


Steve Hendrix
Phase One

[jonstewart]

Steve I have a question regarding the color shifts with the backs.  With my P25 I had definite color shifts on the sides and corners of my files with normal lenses when shooting lots of whites and highlights such as snow scenes,   skys, white sands, etc.  With the P45 this problem was better but not gone and with my current P45+ this issue is still there.  I noticed this on  some files shot in antarctica...one corner would be slightly magenta the other corner/side very slightly green.  This is very subtle and in many cases you have to really look for it,  but nevertheless present even with normal focal length lenses.  What has Phase done with their P65+ to eliminate this color shift problem with regular normal non shift/tilt lenses?  many thanks again, Eleanor

What's wrong with doing a LCC for the lens that exhibits the color shift? Seems that would be a quick process that would only need to be carried out once.

[eleanorbrown]

That's good when I work in Capture One, but I do a whole lot of my work in Lightroom and unfortunately LCC is not an option. Eleanor

What's wrong with doing a LCC for the lens that exhibits the color shift? Seems that would be a quick process that would only need to be carried out once.

[lance_schad]

Elanor,
Have you tried to use the "Easy Gray Profile" in Capture One Pro.
This profile neutralizes near neutral colors. In most cases, by using this profile, no LCC (lens cast calibration) is required when using large format movements.
Please see attached PDF for samples of it being used.

Best Regards,

Lance

[eleanorbrown]

Lance, interesting you should mention that.  Yes I have used Flash easy gray in Capture One and that can work well depending on the image.  However what it tends to do is neutralize any slight color tint, say in a sky that is slightly magenta/yellow for instance, when that was the original tint to the sky when it was photographed.  So this is of limited use as it can take out not only lens cast but colors that are meant to be in the image in the first place.  Also in many cases I prefer to use Lightroom which is of no help with Phase One lens casts. Eleanor

Elanor,
Have you tried to use the "Easy Gray Profile" in Capture One Pro.
This profile neutralizes near neutral colors. In most cases, by using this profile, no LCC (lens cast calibration) is required when using large format movements.
Please see attached PDF for samples of it being used.

Best Regards,

Lance

[pindman]

Keving Raber of Phase One brought a P65+ back on the Michael's Antarctica trip a couple of weeks ago.  I was fortunate enough to compare it to my P45+ back, and made the equivalent of 40 x 60 inch prints.  The difference in quality was amazing.  The P45+ images were great, but the P65+ were stunning, and at this size looked like contact prints!

Expensive in this economy?  Yes.  But there's no question that it's an amazing upgrade!

Paul

[woof75]

Keving Raber of Phase One brought a P65+ back on the Michael's Antarctica trip a couple of weeks ago.  I was fortunate enough to compare it to my P45+ back, and made the equivalent of 40 x 60 inch prints.  The difference in quality was amazing.  The P45+ images were great, but the P65+ were stunning, and at this size looked like contact prints!

Expensive in this economy?  Yes.  But there's no question that it's an amazing upgrade!

Paul

Any idea if the differences would show at 11 by 14 inch print size?

[Larry_Menzin]

I still have some magenta/green casting even when using LCC when I attempt to stitch with my P20. The left-hand frame is casted green, while the right-hand frame is casted magenta. LCC removes a lot of this, but not all of it. The problem is especially apparent with snow, where any cast is immediately apparent. Using digital lenses does not seem to help that much.

Steve I have a question regarding the color shifts with the backs.  With my P25 I had definite color shifts on the sides and corners of my files with normal lenses when shooting lots of whites and highlights such as snow scenes,   skys, white sands, etc.  With the P45 this problem was better but not gone and with my current P45+ this issue is still there.  I noticed this on  some files shot in antarctica...one corner would be slightly magenta the other corner/side very slightly green.  This is very subtle and in many cases you have to really look for it,  but nevertheless present even with normal focal length lenses.  What has Phase done with their P65+ to eliminate this color shift problem with regular normal non shift/tilt lenses?  many thanks again, Eleanor

[eleanorbrown]

Hi Paul, if possible could you elaborate a bit more about comparisons to your P45+.  I also have a 45+ and mostly shoot at base iso.  Was in antarctica the same time you were on a National Geographic expedition and shot with the 45+ no higher then 100 iso but was wishing for a cleaner 400 iso.  Did you try 200 -400 iso on the P65+?  Thanks, Eleanor

Keving Raber of Phase One brought a P65+ back on the Michael's Antarctica trip a couple of weeks ago.  I was fortunate enough to compare it to my P45+ back, and made the equivalent of 40 x 60 inch prints.  The difference in quality was amazing.  The P45+ images were great, but the P65+ were stunning, and at this size looked like contact prints!

Expensive in this economy?  Yes.  But there's no question that it's an amazing upgrade!

Paul

[pindman]

Hi Paul, if possible could you elaborate a bit more about comparisons to your P45+.  I also have a 45+ and mostly shoot at base iso.  Was in antarctica the same time you were on a National Geographic expedition and shot with the 45+ no higher then 100 iso but was wishing for a cleaner 400 iso.  Did you try 200 -400 iso on the P65+?  Thanks, Eleanor

I looked for you on the dock in Ushuaia, Eleanor.  (Just know you from your great web site.)  
I didn't do a scientific study, but I used both backs at ISO 200.  Before I left I did some quick tests, and knew I wouldn't want to go above 200 with the P45+.  At the same time, narrow depth of field was a much geater problem for me (except with the WA digitar lenses) than noise.  200 was the best compromise.

The real test for me was not on the computer, but in large prints.  I don't make a living doing photography... I just love it.  Having grown up with 35mm to 4x5, and everything in between, it's the final print that counts.  For many images fine image quality is secondary to the emotion caught in the moment.  For landscape and other types of photography when shooting film it's worth ggoing to 4x5 or larger, despite the trouble.  I really wasn't ready to make the upgrade... until I looked at actual prints.  I'd suggest making your own comparison.

Paul

[eleanorbrown]

Hi Paul, our ship, the Endeavor, left 3 days before the LL ship left.  There was a larger National Geographic ship, the Explorer, that left around the time you all did, but I wasn't on that one.  If you have any of your antarctic images on the web would love to have the link to see them.  Wasn't that an awesome place to photograph the landscape!!? Eleanor

I looked for you on the dock in Ushuaia, Eleanor.  (Just know you from your great web site.)  
I didn't do a scientific study, but I used both backs at ISO 200.  Before I left I did some quick tests, and knew I wouldn't want to go above 200 with the P45+.  At the same time, narrow depth of field was a much geater problem for me (except with the WA digitar lenses) than noise.  200 was the best compromise.

The real test for me was not on the computer, but in large prints.  I don't make a living doing photography... I just love it.  Having grown up with 35mm to 4x5, and everything in between, it's the final print that counts.  For many images fine image quality is secondary to the emotion caught in the moment.  For landscape and other types of photography when shooting film it's worth ggoing to 4x5 or larger, despite the trouble.  I really wasn't ready to make the upgrade... until I looked at actual prints.  I'd suggest making your own comparison.

Paul

[lance_schad]

Lance, interesting you should mention that.  Yes I have used Flash easy gray in Capture One and that can work well depending on the image.  However what it tends to do is neutralize any slight color tint, say in a sky that is slightly magenta/yellow for instance, when that was the original tint to the sky when it was photographed.  So this is of limited use as it can take out not only lens cast but colors that are meant to be in the image in the first place.  Also in many cases I prefer to use Lightroom which is of no help with Phase One lens casts. Eleanor

Yes that is the issue sometimes with using that profile, but in the right situation it works well.
So in this scenario did you try to use the profile for the general correction, then use the COLOR EDITOR to tweak the areas such as the sky where you want a slight tint?

Lance