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Author Topic: Software Confusion  (Read 5547 times)

lausanne

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Software Confusion
« on: January 23, 2009, 05:51:16 pm »

I thought I was hip when I upgraded my PS from 5.5 to CS2.  Then I blinked...  I dip in and out of photography depending on the rest of my life's demands and each time is like trying to catch a speeding train.

I'm trying to decide if I need BOTH CS4 and LR2.

I have a Nikon D70 and Epson R2400 printer (I know, but they're still brand new to me.)

I want to shoot RAW, then convert to B&W (probably using channels), then print.  Eventually want to do some color too but that involves more color management tools ...

I'll be doing low volume.

So, how much overlap is there between CS4 and LR2?  I'm particularly interested in the overlap between ACR and Bridge with LR2 capabilities.  I'm really having a hard time understanding where CS4 and LR2 merge and diverge.

Any help is appreciated.
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jdemott

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Software Confusion
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 06:30:05 pm »

Let me offer an admittedly over-simplified answer that should help you sort out which direction you want to go.  Lightroom, in essence offers file management capabilites similar to Bridge (i.e., thumbnail views, sorting, keywords, retrieval, etc.) plus the raw conversion and basic editing tools of Adobe Camera Raw.  Lightroom is designed primarily for photographers who do a large volume of shooting and processing.  If you want to handle big volumes of files, with offline storage, Lightroom is the way to go. Otherwise, for modest volumes of files, you will be able to do almost all the same things in Bridge and ACR, which come included with Photoshop CS4.  Photoshop provides many more editing tools than either ACR or LR.  Many, if not most, LR users find they also need PS CS4 to do detailed edits.  Some find that LR offers everything they need.

BTW, PS, ACR, and LR all offer tools for converting to B&W that are much more convenient (and often provide superior results) than using Channels as was the common practice with older versions of PS.
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John DeMott

lausanne

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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 07:04:04 pm »

John, Perfect.  Just the kind of overview I needed.  Seems best to upgrade my CS2 to CS4 and use the LR money on a color management gizmo in the near future instead.

Big Thanks,

Lausanne
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Jeremy Roussak

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Software Confusion
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2009, 04:20:42 am »

Quote from: lausanne
John, Perfect.  Just the kind of overview I needed.  Seems best to upgrade my CS2 to CS4 and use the LR money on a color management gizmo in the near future instead.
I'd be cautious about this approach. I'm not a pro and I don't shoot huge, or even large, volumes, but I have found LR to be a wonderful program: the more I use it, the more I like it. It's not expensive (certainly not when compared to CS4!) and it allows me to do nearly everything I need.

I think that before splashing out a lot of money on the upgrade to CS4, you should do a couple of things:

1. Think carefully about what you can do with CS4 that you can't do with CS2. Do you really need the new features? (I have CS3, which I use from time to time: its best new feature was, IMHO, its vastly improved stitching but even that isn't up to AutoPano Pro / PTGui standards - and both are a lot cheaper). How much pixel-level editing do you do? Will CS4 do it better than CS2?

2. Download a demo copy of LR and play with it for a while. I think you'll be amazed.

Sorry to gush about LR. I seldom get enthusiastic about software but I find LR deserving of high praise.

Jeremy
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JMCP

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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2009, 07:16:03 am »

Ditto what Jeremy said.

I and I know a few others have both Photoshop CS3 and Lightroom 2 and we have found that Photoshop has become redundant on our systems as we find Lightroom is everything we need. I would suggest that CS2 and Lightroom would be sufficient for you as you are using a D70, one of the reasons for upgrading to newer versions of Photoshop is because it is needed to support the newer cameras on the market ie CS2 won't have raw support for something like a Nikon DX3 or Canon 5D II.



Cheers John
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lausanne

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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 09:05:11 am »

Oh Great!  Thanks Guys!  LOL!  Always another POV!

Here's my options:

1. Stay with CS2 and ADD LR2 (for $300)
2. Upgrade to CS4 ($200) and leave off LR
3. OR get both for $200 CS4 + $300LR (-30% discount when purchased with CS4) - which, of course, I'd love to save a bit of money here if all my priorities would overlap)

I do like the idea of the B&W layers stuff and ACR in CS3/4 that I'm missing with CS2.  I guess I need to dig deeper  and compare the offerings of all three to see what I'd be trading off.

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lausanne

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« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2009, 09:59:58 am »

Well, I can't find detailed comparisons anywhere but I see that I can get trial versions of both.  So, I guess that's the best thing to do.
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jdemott

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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2009, 12:37:05 pm »

Let me add a couple more details to my earlier reply.  This is not to contradict Jeremy and John, because certainly Lightroom is a very fine program that Adobe has given a lot of thought to, and is one that many photographers find works very well for their needs.  

LR's development features, the raw conversion and editing tools, are based on the same software engine found in Adobe Camera Raw--my understanding is that "under the hood" the two are identical so that you can perform the same edits in either program.  The user interface however is somewhat different, with ACR being a standalone module opening into PS while LR's development features are integrated more closely with the file management tools.  

Bridge serves the same basic functions as the file management tools of LR (downloading files, renaming, indexing, sorting, searching, retrieving, and managing batch operations) but under the hood, the two programs are completely different.  LR has a true database management program that allows very powerful and fast management of large groups of files, including offline storage.  Because the database and development tools are combined in one program, LR makes it especially convenient to work with groups of files and apply edits to groups of files, such as correcting the white balance for a whole day's shooting. If all or most of your editing needs can be met with ACR, then it may be that the convenience of LR would be worthwhile--it would really be a question of user preference.  Obviously, the question of user interface is one on which people may have strong feelings--if you spend a lot of time with a program it is important to have something that works for you.  Whether that is LR, or Bridge and ACR, only you can say.

Unquestionably, PS provides a host of editing tools not found in LR and ACR.  Whether you need them, only you can say, but if you want those tools there isn't really any substitute for taking the image out of either LR or ACR and working on it in PS.  The versions of Bridge and ACR that are included with CS4 are greatly improved from those with CS2.  ACR has a number of important new features and Bridge was upgraded from CS3 to CS4 so it seems to work much much more smoothly and has an improved interface.  My own opinion is that PS CS4 has provided a lot of other improvements of particular use to photographers compared to CS2, so if you need PS, the upgrade to CS4 is very worthwhile whether or not you use LR.  For me at least (I do a reasonable volume of shooting for an amateur) the tools in ACR and Bridge are more than sufficient and I couldn't justify the additional expense of LR unless I had a much higher volume where I needed the more sophisticated database of LR.  

Hope this helps.
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John DeMott

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Software Confusion
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2009, 01:35:40 pm »

After I posted the above, I happened to see a thread on another site discussing the same question, which may be helpful to you. http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00SCcp

Most of the posters in the other thread seem to favor purchasing both LR and PS--they seem to find that they can do most of their editing in LR, with PS reserved for the special cases.  One poster explained the differences by saying that Bridge > ACR > PS works best for a photographer who is interested in "Craft," producing individual works of fine art, while LR is best for those interested in "Production," performing basic edits on many photos.  Clearly, there are many perspectives on the question.
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John DeMott

lausanne

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Software Confusion
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 02:11:01 pm »

Great!  Thanks again, guys.  I'll probably go with just the CS4 'cause I'm a fiddler but I will download both first so I know what I'll be missing if I opt out of LR for now.
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jasonrandolph

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Software Confusion
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2009, 03:33:48 pm »

I have CS2 and LR2.2, and I can honestly say that the only time I use CS2 anymore is for soft-proofing.  The rest of my workflow, from import to final prints, is now done entirely in LR.  The only other possible reason for using Photoshop for me these days is if I want to stitch together multiple shots (which I almost never do).  I say take a long hard look at LR before upgrading to CS4.  IMHO, PS is now a graphic arts app, while Lightroom is a photographer's best friend.
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