Looking for 1 stop shop for matting supplies for new business.

[dgberg]

I am purchasing the supplies for my new business venture.I have my Epson 7900 and am supplied with several years worth of canvas and photo paper on rolls.  I am now in need of all the misc. items. What is the best supply house that may sell most or all of the following?
Rising mat board,mounting foam board,3m 2 sided tape,black paper backs for canvas wraps,canvas gallery wrap hangers, mounting tape,plastic sleeves.
A good customer service department would be good as well. For my first order I would like to talk to a live person for their expertise in selling me the right products.
Another question for you framers. I will be matting some of the larger prints,no framing. What thickness of mat board is suggested? I have to see if my new Speed-Mat will cut the thicker 8 ply. Or maybe the 4 ply is good enough?

Thank you in advance.
Dan Berg
Bergs Canvas Gallery

[Dward]

Don Mar Frame and Moulding has Rising mat board and the other supplies you mention.  I've had excellent service from them for many years.  Other good suppliers are Larson-Juhl, though they don't carry Rising, and M&M Distributors.  

Don Mar's phone number is:  1-800-556-7428.   They deliver in PA, NJ, NY, CT, and MA (at least).

David V. Ward, Ph. D.
www.dvward.com
David V. Ward Fine Art Photography

[robertDthomas]

Another supplier that has a complete selection and good prices is www.framingsupplies.com.  I believe they only have crescent mat board.

[Paul2660]

Also Check into United MFRS Supplies Inc  
www.unitedmfrs.com

1-800-645-7260.

Their website is not the best, at least it didn't used to be.  I order from the catalog.
You will need a tax id number as they are a distributor.  

Paul Caldwell

[dgberg]

Thanks to all. I did the google search and came up with all sorts of companies. Just looking for someone that might stand out from the rest.
Thanks Again
Dan Berg

[EA6B]

http://www.matshop.com/

E

[JohnBrew]

Also Check into United MFRS Supplies Inc  
www.unitedmfrs.com

1-800-645-7260.

Their website is not the best, at least it didn't used to be.  I order from the catalog.
You will need a tax id number as they are a distributor.  

Paul Caldwell

FYI, I used this company twice and both times they screwed up the order. I don't recommend them to anyone.

[bill t.]

Couple of observations...

Framing supplies like matboard and foamcore are big.  Shipping will be a significant part of your expense.  In the medium to large sizes such items will usually need to ship freight rather than UPS.  Freight shipping is the curse of the small, isolated framer.  For instance there is about a $100+ minimum charge for freight shipping.  (And then they they skewer your foamcore with a forklift prong).  You need to order a lot of stuff at the same time to not get killed by the minimum.

If at all possible you should try to find local suppliers for all such oversized items, let them bear the shipping expense and hassles.  I would be willing to occasionally drive a fair distance to avoid freight shippers.

Almost all framing suppliers are very behind-the-times in terms of knowing what they have in stock.  If you really need an item, you will have to goad them into walking back to the warehouse to see if the item is really there.  UnitedMfrs.com is for people who know what they want and order well in advance.  The phone people are mostly just order takers, they can't give you much information.  Framingsupplies.com is just a little better and a little more expensive...if I really need something I always call rather than order online.  Both those suppliers have low ball prices and you get commensurate service.  I use both of them all the time, I just have to understand the limitations.  To their credit, they are very much cheaper than the companies with better customer service.  United ships from the NY area, framingsupplies ships from Georgia, that can affect shipping costs and time to your location.

A great resource for the new framer is...

http://www.thegrumble.com/

one of the nicest groups of people on the net so long as they don't discuss religion or politics.  Any conceivable framing or philosophical question will be answered within minutes.  Sponsored by UnitedMfrs.com, have to give them credit for that.

PS UnitedMfrs.com has the most hopeless "Search" box of any supplier anywhere.  If you need something browse the online catalog, look up what you want in the index.  Same for framingsupplies.

PS if you can make it to Vegas this Monday through Wednesday (Jan 26 to to 28) you can go to the WCAF show at the Hilton.  All the big framing suppliers will be there, it would be a great way to get some perspective.  Matboard, moulding, equipment, the whole works.

http://www.wcafshow.com

[Justan]

I've been looking into the same thing as Dan B (the OP), and for similar reasons. What I found closely echoes Bill T’s and others comments. Due to shipping costs, time delays and other unobvious variables related to buying at a distance, it’s a good idea to buy the bigger and heavier stuff locally. Time lost due to shipping and in particular shipping damage can be frustrating, and many web vendors are none too accommodating about returns or shipping damage

I checked a local supplier who sells the Crescent brand of mat boards, and while they sell virtually everything, their metal frames are a lot costlier than can be had on the web. While I know that the OP wasn’t interested in frames, the key point is that some things are worth shopping around for but shipping related issues must definitely be part of the calculations.

Also one supposition I had about purchasing suggested to buy in large pieces of media and bulk quantities for savings. What I found is that there is often no major break in costs unless you buy over $1000 worth of items. And even then, the savings is similar no matter what the size of individual pieces. While it certainly isn’t hard to spend a kilobuck, the lack of savings makes a good case for buying closer to short term needs rather than stocking up…

On the topic of customer service, everyone I've spoken with has been absolutely great. Good customer service seems to my limited experience to be a highly consistent value shared by most in this industry. A brief example was today I called Fletcher-Terry offices to see about getting parts for a 20 year old media cutter I bought yesterday. Within minutes they helped me to find the parts I needed, even though the model I have is no longer sold or supported. They also gave me parts numbers for the media cutter’s cutting implements. This took only about 10 minutes of my time and sending a few photos by email. I'm sold on the Fletcher-Terry brand for their great customer service.

Best of luck on your venture!

[Tklimek]

Dan....

Another thing you might consider if you are thinking about 8 ply mat is to double-mat using 4 ply mat.  This was shown by Bill Atkinson in the LLVJ #15 where he also shows his matting, bagging, and tagging methodology along with the use of his Speedmat.  I think Bill (in the video) prefers a 5/8 reveal.

Although I'm just an amateur, I do like the look of the double mat on most of my photos, but obviously the raw materials are about double (2 same size matboards vs. 1).

:-)

Cheers.....

Todd in Chicago

[bill t.]

Drifting off topic here a bit, but an interesting alternative to mattes is to use linen liners instead.

They look a lot like very thick mattes, but are basically fabric glued on strips of wood typically 1 to 3 inches wide.  They either have a beveled edge a lot like a matte, or sometimes they have a gold lip.  You use them as a frame within your main frame.

Cost for a liner is about $0.90 to around $2.00 per linear foot, they can actually cost less than an archival matte.  They add a huge amount of perceived value to the framed image...for the right customer.

They give your image echos of times past but also ooze very high perceived value.  Might not be right for cutting edge contemporary, but for most of the stuff I've seen posted here would work very well indeed.  I do a recurring gallery show every Nov & Dec, this year I put liners on everything, my sales more than doubled from 9 very large pieces last year to 22 this year in spite of prices up about 30%.

Looks great with coated canvas without any glazing.

I use a Morso picture frame chopper which cuts moulding and liners with great ease, it is actually easier for me to make a liner than cut a matte.  You also need an underpinner, the manual ones work great.  Also nice to have a set of 4 framer's clamps.  Time to build a liner/frame combo is no more than an hour once you get the hang of it.  The downside...buying everything used to still need to shell out ~$2K to get what you need to make it easy.  The other downside...you have to have the stuff shipped to your unless you live in NY, LA, Dallas, Georgia or a limited number of other places.

Here's a picture of linen liner treatment.  Sort of like a 32 ply matte.
http://new.trailsidegalleries.com/PopUp.cf...iena,%20Tuscany

[dgberg]

Drifting off topic here a bit, but an interesting alternative to mattes is to use linen liners instead.

They look a lot like very thick mattes, but are basically fabric glued on strips of wood typically 1 to 3 inches wide.  They either have a beveled edge a lot like a matte, or sometimes they have a gold lip.  You use them as a frame within your main frame.

Cost for a liner is about $0.90 to around $2.00 per linear foot, they can actually cost less than an archival matte.  They add a huge amount of perceived value to the framed image...for the right customer.

They give your image echos of times past but also ooze very high perceived value.  Might not be right for cutting edge contemporary, but for most of the stuff I've seen posted here would work very well indeed.  I do a recurring gallery show every Nov & Dec, this year I put liners on everything, my sales more than doubled from 9 very large pieces last year to 22 this year in spite of prices up about 30%.

Looks great with coated canvas without any glazing.

I use a Morso picture frame chopper which cuts moulding and liners with great ease, it is actually easier for me to make a liner than cut a matte.  You also need an underpinner, the manual ones work great.  Also nice to have a set of 4 framer's clamps.  Time to build a liner/frame combo is no more than an hour once you get the hang of it.  The downside...buying everything used to still need to shell out ~$2K to get what you need to make it easy.  The other downside...you have to have the stuff shipped to your unless you live in NY, LA, Dallas, Georgia or a limited number of other places.

Here's a picture of linen liner treatment.  Sort of like a 32 ply matte.
http://new.trailsidegalleries.com/PopUp.cf...iena,%20Tuscany

Many great ideas.
 I put an order in with Decor Moulding in New York. They did not have Rising Museum board so I ordered the Cresent Museum in 4 ply. I also think the 8 ply may be a bit too much.
My max size ordered is 32 X 40 and that can be sent ground UPS.
Thanks to all.
Dan Berg

[Justan]

Drifting off topic here a bit, but an interesting alternative to mattes is to use linen liners instead....

[snip]

Here's a picture of linen liner treatment.  Sort of like a 32 ply matte.
http://new.trailsidegalleries.com/PopUp.cf...iena,%20Tuscany

Great idea! ~Thanks for the tip~

[EA6B]

Not to sidetrack this thread, but how exactly are these used.

Thanks.
E

[bill t.]

>Not to sidetrack this thread, but how exactly are these used.

Liners are used in the same way a paper mattes.  Mattes are intended to space the print away from the glass (or plastic) and provide a separation between the non-archival wood frame and the print.  Liners do much the same thing, although they are often used without glass as with oil paintings.  Most available today are plastic coated (except for the fabric) or have a thick paint layer, frankly they are probably not as archival as the highest quality paper mattes, but they have been used on artwork for centuries with no great arm.

Liners are like simplified frames, they have exactly the same kind slot for the artwork ...the "rabbet" (US) or "rebate" (UK).  When you get the liner assembled and the artwork installed in them, you stick them into the rabbet of the actual outside frame.  Voila, you're there!  Frames-within-frames are often used in high end framing.

So as not to mislead, those interested in using liners should be aware that they do not cut well with a rotary blade saw, the fabric winds up somewhat shredded and it's hard to make a neat looking joint.  For best results you need to cut them with a knife-bladed miter device like a Morso chopper.  Alternatively you can assemble a bare wood liner frame, then cover it with linen or other fabric but this is very time consuming.  You can even sew the fabric on, but it's just not a guy thing.