Opinion needed: Best Rag paper for archival printing

[Henry Goh]

I wish to move to using rag-based archival media.  I have no experience yet with rag, using mostly Epson Premium Luster and Gloss papers.  I want to now use rag for better permanence.  Can you guys please share some of your findings because it is quite difficult to even buy such material where I am so experimenting is going to be tough.  Thanks a zillion.

[bill t.]

Can you guys please share some of your findings because it is quite difficult to even buy such material where I am so experimenting is going to be tough.  Thanks a zillion.

First...those fine art rag papers look VERY different than Premium Luster and the glossy papers.  I mean, REALLY different!

You probably should buy a few sample packs, there are a few links below.  Besides differences in image quality, a big difference among the rag papers is the surface texture.  There are huge variations in the surface texture from no texture at all, to very textured.  The sample packs will help you decide what you like.

The smooth rag papers make very sharp, relatively high contrast prints, the more textured papers are less sharp and usually have less contrast.

A good transition paper between Premium Luster and rag papers might be Epson UltraSmooth Fine Art paper, which I am sure you can find in Singapore.  It is very smooth so it prints sharp.  The color and contrast are on the high side for a matte paper, but really nowhere near the glossies.  It is expensive, 2 or 3 times more than Epson RC papers.  It is highly archival.

If you just want to experiment with matte papers, try Epson Enhanced Matte.  In terms of print contrast it is one of the closest matte papers to the glossy RC papers.  It is not fully archival, although it has very good ratings from the testing labs.  If costs less than Epson RC papers.

One thing to remember...when you frame matte paper behind glass, it looks a little bit glossy!  The differences between matte and glossy papers are not so great when they are framed.  You can also coat matte papers with various spray coatings which make them look glossy and increase the contrast.

Here is a page of sample packs for all the popular types of papers.  The "Hahnemuhle FA Variety" sample pack shows the range of texture from smooth  (Natural Art Duo and Photo Rag) to very textured (German Etching and William Turner).   There are 2 sheets each of 9 different papers 8.5 x 11 inches.
http://www.inkjetart.com/cart/media-sample...ks-c-1_805.html

[Henry Goh]

First...those fine art ra/url]

Bill,  Thank you.

I guess I have to look out for smoother rag.  I just want to find a suitable rag medium for archival purpose, not for texture or contrast.

[jdoyle1713]

The Majority of "Rag" Papers are for matte Black ink.. So Make your Choice..If you want Photo Black "Rag Papers"

There are several from Hahnemuhle & Museo Silver Rag!

Good Luck

Cheers
Jim Doyle
http://www.shadesofpaper.com

[JimGoshorn]

I have been going through the same questions. For photo black ink and max purity you have Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta and Museo Silver Rag. For matte black ink there is a larger selection of papers but two to look at are Epson UltraSmooth and Museo Portfolio Rag. I haven't tried the Museo products yet but I have tried the Photo Rag Baryta and UltraSmooth and like both. The Epson Premium Luster and Enhanced Matte make good proof papers.

[Geoff Wittig]

I wish to move to using rag-based archival media.  I have no experience yet with rag, using mostly Epson Premium Luster and Gloss papers.  I want to now use rag for better permanence.  Can you guys please share some of your findings because it is quite difficult to even buy such material where I am so experimenting is going to be tough.  Thanks a zillion.

As always, the best choice depends on the look you want.
First, cotton rag papers can be divided based on surface and recommended black ink type.

The traditional matte cotton rag 'fine art' paper like Somerset velvet, Epson ultrasmooth or Hahnemüle photo rag has a matte surface, with a wide range of texture choices from quite smooth to heavily textured watercolor papers. These use matte black inks. They'll have a relatively weak d-max compared to the Epson premium luster you've been using, and a reduced color gamut. On the other hand, they can provide a beautiful soft 'painterly' look to prints, and the surface texture can really work well with large prints, adding interest and apparent detail to things like snowy landscape. The matte surface means no troubling reflections, and when framed behind glass the mediocre d-max and gamut are not as apparent.

Newer cotton rag based papers with semigloss surfaces permit you to use photo black ink, with resulting improvement in d-max that can rival that of the plastic luster papers, while still using a cotton rag base. There's a bunch of them now, including Hahnemüle photo rag pearl and photo rag baryta, Crane's museo silver rag, Epson's exhibition fiber, Ilford's gold fiber silk, etc...

It makes sense to get a sample pack and try the most promising prospects with your own images, and once you decide on one or two you like, move on to actually printing your work. It's easy to get bogged down doing endless rounds of testing, just like perpetual test strips back in the darkroom days.

[Henry Goh]

The Majority of "Rag" Papers are for matte Black ink.. So Make your Choice..If you want Photo Black "Rag Papers"

There are several from Hahnemuhle & Museo Silver Rag!

Good Luck

Cheers
Jim Doyle
http://www.shadesofpaper.com

Thanks Jim.  Will check these out.

[Henry Goh]

I have been going through the same questions. For photo black ink and max purity you have Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta and Museo Silver Rag. For matte black ink there is a larger selection of papers but two to look at are Epson UltraSmooth and Museo Portfolio Rag. I haven't tried the Museo products yet but I have tried the Photo Rag Baryta and UltraSmooth and like both. The Epson Premium Luster and Enhanced Matte make good proof papers.

OK Jim.  Thanks for the tip.  Will have a look at them soon.

[Henry Goh]

As always, the best choice depends on the look you want.
First, cotton rag papers can be divided based on surface and recommended black ink type.

The traditional matte cotton rag 'fine art' paper like Somerset velvet, Epson ultrasmooth or Hahnemüle photo rag has a matte surface, with a wide range of texture choices from quite smooth to heavily textured watercolor papers. These use matte black inks. They'll have a relatively weak d-max compared to the Epson premium luster you've been using, and a reduced color gamut. On the other hand, they can provide a beautiful soft 'painterly' look to prints, and the surface texture can really work well with large prints, adding interest and apparent detail to things like snowy landscape. The matte surface means no troubling reflections, and when framed behind glass the mediocre d-max and gamut are not as apparent.

Newer cotton rag based papers with semigloss surfaces permit you to use photo black ink, with resulting improvement in d-max that can rival that of the plastic luster papers, while still using a cotton rag base. There's a bunch of them now, including Hahnemüle photo rag pearl and photo rag baryta, Crane's museo silver rag, Epson's exhibition fiber, Ilford's gold fiber silk, etc...

It makes sense to get a sample pack and try the most promising prospects with your own images, and once you decide on one or two you like, move on to actually printing your work. It's easy to get bogged down doing endless rounds of testing, just like perpetual test strips back in the darkroom days.

Geoff very useful info all.  One question, when a rag paper uses only matt black, does it mean I replace the photoblack cartridge with a matte one?

[sesshin]

I print fine art reproductions and have sampled every matte rag paper on the market while getting input from a number of artists on which ones they prefer. The paper I have settled on for the majority of my printing is Museo Portfolio Rag, which is 300gsm and smooth rag with no optical brighteners. Museo II and Museo Max are also very good, still with no optical brighteners and 365gsm instead of 300gsm, but a little more texture. Silver Rag has a semi-gloss finish, not matte, which doesn't always go well with fine art reproduction. Same with Hahn. Photo Rag Pearl & Baryta.

Other brands of matte rag paper without brighteners that are popular are Epson Ultrasmooth and Hahnemuhe Museum Etching. Neither have the dmax of Museo Portfolio Rag though.

If you choose to have brighteners in your paper you have quite a few more options (Espon Velvet Fine Art, Hahn Photo Rag, etc). While these papers may still technically be "archival" personally I wouldn't use any of them for prints that need to look the same now as 30 years from now.

[Geoff Wittig]

Geoff very useful info all.  One question, when a rag paper uses only matt black, does it mean I replace the photoblack cartridge with a matte one?

Depends on your printer, but if it's an Epson that requires black ink swapping then yes, for matte cotton rag papers you'll generally need to use the matte black ink. As I understand it, matte black ink uses larger/coarser pigment particles that don't sink deep into the soft surface of rag papers so they produce a better d-max on these papers than the finer photo black ink. If you use matte black ink on a glossy/semigloss paper, it can rub off like charcoal.

If your image depends on a very deep black and wide dynamic range or color gamut for its impact, it'll look better on semigloss/luster paper surfaces with photo black ink. On the other hand, there are plenty of images that look great on the 'gentler' matte cotton rag papers.

For small printers like Epson's 2400/2880 etc. the black ink swap is simple and doesn't waste too much ink. For the bigger printers, it's an expensive PIA that drove me to HP's larger Z3100.

[Henry Goh]

I print fine art reproductions and have sampled every matte rag paper on the market while getting input from a number of artists on which ones they prefer. The paper I have settled on for the majority of my printing is Museo Portfolio Rag, which is 300gsm and smooth rag with no optical brighteners. Museo II and Museo Max are also very good, still with no optical brighteners and 365gsm instead of 300gsm, but a little more texture. Silver Rag has a semi-gloss finish, not matte, which doesn't always go well with fine art reproduction. Same with Hahn. Photo Rag Pearl & Baryta.

Other brands of matte rag paper without brighteners that are popular are Epson Ultrasmooth and Hahnemuhe Museum Etching. Neither have the dmax of Museo Portfolio Rag though.

If you choose to have brighteners in your paper you have quite a few more options (Espon Velvet Fine Art, Hahn Photo Rag, etc). While these papers may still technically be "archival" personally I wouldn't use any of them for prints that need to look the same now as 30 years from now.

Thank you for sharing the info.  Great help to me!

[Henry Goh]

Depends on your printer, but if it's an Epson that requires black ink swapping then yes, for matte cotton rag papers you'll generally need to use the matte black ink. As I understand it, matte black ink uses larger/coarser pigment particles that don't sink deep into the soft surface of rag papers so they produce a better d-max on these papers than the finer photo black ink. If you use matte black ink on a glossy/semigloss paper, it can rub off like charcoal.

If your image depends on a very deep black and wide dynamic range or color gamut for its impact, it'll look better on semigloss/luster paper surfaces with photo black ink. On the other hand, there are plenty of images that look great on the 'gentler' matte cotton rag papers.

For small printers like Epson's 2400/2880 etc. the black ink swap is simple and doesn't waste too much ink. For the bigger printers, it's an expensive PIA that drove me to HP's larger Z3100.

Thanks again Geoff.  I'm using an old Epson Pro 4000.  Not familiar with HP.  Does it not use photo black or is it "intelligeint" enough not to send the photo black ink to rag?

[Paul Roark]

I wish to move to using rag-based archival media.  I have no experience yet with rag, using mostly Epson Premium Luster and Gloss papers.  I want to now use rag for better permanence.  Can you guys please share some of your findings because it is quite difficult to even buy such material where I am so experimenting is going to be tough.  Thanks a zillion.

The ultimate in permanence is probably an un-coated paper like Arches Hot Press.  It has the best dmax that I've tested for un-coated papers, but it's still not close to the best coated matte papers.  Arches and all un-coated papers also print rather roughly.  It may print smoothly enough with some inksets and 1.5 pl printers, but I'd assume it's not really ready for prime time for most of us.  So, we usually have to use a coated inkjet papers, which introduces un-known long term risks due coatings tending to separate.

You can look at Wilhelm for some information, and a lot of this really depends on how seriously you want to pursue longevity.  There is a huge number of acid free, cotton papers that'll probably last a long time -- maybe hundreds of years.  But we really have no history with these papers.  So, there is uncertainty.  Thus for some uses, some prefer to go as far as possible to eliminate the potential sources of trouble, and some papers are made more for longevity than for things like the highest dmax.

Age testing, as oppose to fade testing, is very difficult and uncertain.  So much of what the purists rely on is based on history and educated guesses.

Among relatively normal inkjet papers, Epson states that its "Premier Art Scrapbook" paper is, "Our most archival paper!"
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/Product...6&category=
 
Epson UltraSmooth is about the same and in larger sizes.  I use the Premier Imaging version -- Smooth Hot Press 325 --  for my museum restorations/reproductions.   In addition to being made for longevity, it has a nice dmax of up to 1.69 (with a rip).
See http://www.premierimagingproducts.com/prod...p?product_id=24

In general, if you really want archival keeping with the least image change, you'll want to stay with un-brightened, non-OBA papers.  OBAs are mostly dyes that fade quickly and make the paper appear to be yellowing.  People will thing the paper is cheap acidic paper even if it's buffered cotton.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Geoff Wittig]

Thanks again Geoff.  I'm using an old Epson Pro 4000.  Not familiar with HP.  Does it not use photo black or is it "intelligeint" enough not to send the photo black ink to rag?

HP's Z3100 has both blacks always loaded; it knows which to use depending on the paper preset you choose, and for some rag papers it actually uses both. I print a lot of black & white on a variety of papers, so this was a big deal for me. Canon's bigger printers also have both matte and photo black loaded at all times.

I still own an older Epson 7600, which does a perfectly good job on matte/cotton rag papers, less so on luster/semigloss papers compared to newer models. The next generation (K3) printers are much better on glossier papers, but the black swapping was a deal-breaker for me. Even now Epson makes you buy a much more expensive 24" printer to have both blacks loaded simultaneously.

[Lust4Life]

I researched extensively the archival/rag papers and found the Crane Museo Silver Rag to meet my needs.

It's the only one that gives me the detail and dmax that I was after.

One reservation I have to share is that last year I ordered several 17" rolls from Jim at Shades of Paper.  Up to that order all was great.  With that order one of the two rolls had intermittent "bumps" in the surface - definitely defects.  This defect was scattered through out the roll so you ended up wasting ink and time just to find a defect in the final print.  Jim put me in tough with the rep from Crane/Museo - he requested I sent him a sample - I did - never heard back from he or Jim on the problem.

I threw away the roll - expensive loss.

Fortunately other rolls have been fine.  But I'm getting close to the end of my current stock and must admit apprehension on ordering any more.

Jack

[JohnBrew]

HP's Z3100 has both blacks always loaded; it knows which to use depending on the paper preset you choose, and for some rag papers it actually uses both. I print a lot of black & white on a variety of papers, so this was a big deal for me. Canon's bigger printers also have both matte and photo black loaded at all times.

I still own an older Epson 7600, which does a perfectly good job on matte/cotton rag papers, less so on luster/semigloss papers compared to newer models. The next generation (K3) printers are much better on glossier papers, but the black swapping was a deal-breaker for me. Even now Epson makes you buy a much more expensive 24" printer to have both blacks loaded simultaneously.

Geoff, the 3800 (17") has both blacks loaded.

[Geoff Wittig]

Geoff, the 3800 (17") has both blacks loaded.

D'oh!
I knew that. In the larger 24" printers, Epson makes you pay another $1,000 for the 7900 over the 7880 if you need both blacks loaded simultaneously. This just drives me crazy. I still like the great durability of the Epsons, and no doubt about it Epson's large printers do a better job with paper transport/handling than HP's Z printers do.