Changing from MK to PK papers

[fike]

I have been printing almost exclusively on matte papers for the last four years. I like what matte papers look like under glass--no double-glare--and I like the archival qualities of matte papers.  I also think that they lend a slightly more watercolor-ish quality to them that I like.  After trying many papers, I have been working almost exclusively with Moab Entrada 190 or 290--a very nice and economical paper.

But I have had enough.

I am tired of needing to seal images with fixatives for standalone presentation--mounted on foamcore for example.  This has been a big pain for me. I do LARGE panoramic work. With my 7880, I print 24x60 inch panoramics.  Sealing and mounting these on foamcore is a pain in the @ss.  

• I am not willing to swap black inks on my 7880 to do both PK and MK--too expensive.
• I am not enthusiastic about adding the RIP that allows both to be installed simultaneously--to risky.
• Print longevity is very important to me.

So, I am consider changing over to PK ink.  I want deeper blacks. I want to mount a print and be done.  I want the substance and feel of a traditional RC paper.  

The current front-runners in order of preference.

1) Hahnemühle Fine Art Pearl
2) Harman Gloss FB AL
3) Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk


I like the fiber feel and look of the Hahnemühle, I use it for my 11x17 portfolio, but I don't like the price.  I like the deep blacks, color and sharpness of Harman Gloss FB AL.  I like the price of Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk.  If the Harman Gloss FB AL had some weave to it, I would be sold, but it's monotonously smooth.  

Are there any notable papers in this class that I am missing?  does anyone want to buy a lifetime supply of Moab Entrada real cheap.  It's a great paper!

[Wayne Fox]

I have been printing almost exclusively on matte papers for the last four years. I like what matte papers look like under glass--no double-glare--and I like the archival qualities of matte papers.  I also think that they lend a slightly more watercolor-ish quality to them that I like.  After trying many papers, I have been working almost exclusively with Moab Entrada 190 or 290--a very nice and economical paper.

But I have had enough.

I am tired of needing to seal images with fixatives for standalone presentation--mounted on foamcore for example.  This has been a big pain for me. I do LARGE panoramic work. With my 7880, I print 24x60 inch panoramics.  Sealing and mounting these on foamcore is a pain in the @ss.  

• I am not willing to swap black inks on my 7880 to do both PK and MK--too expensive.
• I am not enthusiastic about adding the RIP that allows both to be installed simultaneously--to risky.
• Print longevity is very important to me.

So, I am consider changing over to PK ink.  I want deeper blacks. I want to mount a print and be done.  I want the substance and feel of a traditional RC paper.  

The current front-runners in order of preference.

1) Hahnemühle Fine Art Pearl
2) Harman Gloss FB AL
3) Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk


I like the fiber feel and look of the Hahnemühle, I use it for my 11x17 portfolio, but I don't like the price.  I like the deep blacks, color and sharpness of Harman Gloss FB AL.  I like the price of Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk.  If the Harman Gloss FB AL had some weave to it, I would be sold, but it's monotonously smooth.  

Are there any notable papers in this class that I am missing?  does anyone want to buy a lifetime supply of Moab Entrada real cheap.  It's a great paper!

If you think the Harmon Gloss FB AL is monotonously smooth, then a good word to me to describe Ilford Galarie Gold Fibre Silk is boring.  Less gloss, little or no texture.  It has a nicer "hand" feel to it than Harmon, and  I liked it at first, but mainly because I desperately need a roll alternative to EEF.  One not on your list which I'm working with now as a roll alternative to EEF is Hahnemühle FAB.  Nice rich feel, nice sheen with a little texture.  I'm just bringing in roll paper now to try, like what I see on sheets so far.  I usually don't pay much attention to price ... a few bucks for a better piece of paper isn't much considering what I feel the final print is worth.  

I'm a little confused by the post ... these papers are nearly as fragile as matt surface papers.  The all can scratch and ding very easily. I think these papers are better than any matt papers, but I don't see how they would be much different post printing when mounting and exhibiting.

[bill t.]

If you want a fairly tough PK paper for unprotected mounting, you might try Epson Premium Luster.  It's tougher than the art papers you mentioned (when mounted), has a good black, and a nice look if you manage your image well.  When mounted it can survive finger poking and a fair amount of abrasion.  You can wipe it clean very gently with a slightly moist towel, but it can still be scratched easily by grit especially if moved sideways in a stack of prints.

You can get extremely deep blacks and very rich looking prints on most of the MK canvases...if you coat them.  Just this weekend I bought an insulated garden shed to set up as a paint booth.  A certain amount of hassle to be sure, but when it's finally in place I'll have the coating thing completely solved.  Judging from your web galleries you are probably selling pretty well, might be worth the investment.  I do a similar kind of imagery, the canvas look definitely sells better to people who buy that genre around here.

[Geoff Wittig]

I have been printing almost exclusively on matte papers for the last four years. I like what matte papers look like under glass--no double-glare--and I like the archival qualities of matte papers.  I also think that they lend a slightly more watercolor-ish quality to them that I like.  After trying many papers, I have been working almost exclusively with Moab Entrada 190 or 290--a very nice and economical paper.

But I have had enough.

I am tired of needing to seal images with fixatives for standalone presentation--mounted on foamcore for example.  This has been a big pain for me. I do LARGE panoramic work. With my 7880, I print 24x60 inch panoramics.  Sealing and mounting these on foamcore is a pain in the @ss.  

• I am not willing to swap black inks on my 7880 to do both PK and MK--too expensive.
• I am not enthusiastic about adding the RIP that allows both to be installed simultaneously--to risky.
• Print longevity is very important to me.

So, I am consider changing over to PK ink.  I want deeper blacks. I want to mount a print and be done.  I want the substance and feel of a traditional RC paper.  

The current front-runners in order of preference.

1) Hahnemühle Fine Art Pearl
2) Harman Gloss FB AL
3) Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk


I like the fiber feel and look of the Hahnemühle, I use it for my 11x17 portfolio, but I don't like the price.  I like the deep blacks, color and sharpness of Harman Gloss FB AL.  I like the price of Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk.  If the Harman Gloss FB AL had some weave to it, I would be sold, but it's monotonously smooth.  

Are there any notable papers in this class that I am missing?  does anyone want to buy a lifetime supply of Moab Entrada real cheap.  It's a great paper!

If you like Hahnemüle fine art pearl, try their Photo rag pearl. It has more or less the same surface, but uses 100% cotton rag base with no optical brightening agents, so longevity should be excellent. I like the surface texture quite a lot; it's basically the classic photo rag eggshell surface. Hand feel is terrific. It's my preferred paper for warm images on the HP Z3100; Epsons already to a better job on orange/red tones, so it may matter less.
The other Hahnemüle choice for me is photo rag baryta. This has the same 100% cotton rag base, with a somewhat smoother surface that displays a fine stipple after printing—a bit more subtle and finely textured than Epson's premium luster, on a far nicer fiber base. It's also a slightly warm paper base without OBA's.

Epson premium luster is a very nice paper in terms of d-max and gamut, but it has significant OBA's to provide its very bright white base, and it feels like plastic. The surface stipple can also be a bit much unless you light your print to minimize reflection problems.

For what it's worth, I've generaly been mounting my 24x76" panos on boards with lamination. This really minimizes the importance of surface texture, which tends to be hidden beneath the laminate, and hand feel which is irrelevant once it's mounted. It's just too awkward handling a pano that long without some kind of support.  

Hope this helps.

[fike]

Thanks for the input. I think I am leaning towards two papers:  Hahnemuhle FAP for fine portfolio work and Epson Premium Luster for every day and proofing work.  

Now I have a bout 150 sheets of 8.5x11 Moab Entrada to get rid of. Anyone?

I may also try out the Moab Colorado Fiber Satine, though it isn't any cheaper than the Hahnemuhle.

[Alistair]

Thanks for the input. I think I am leaning towards two papers:  Hahnemuhle FAP for fine portfolio work and Epson Premium Luster for every day and proofing work.  

Now I have a bout 150 sheets of 8.5x11 Moab Entrada to get rid of. Anyone?

I may also try out the Moab Colorado Fiber Satine, though it isn't any cheaper than the Hahnemuhle.

FAP is a very nice paper. Fine Art Baryta is very similar in texture and has a similar paper white. It is a little heavier weight. It is not as sharp though and a little less contrasty which suits some images. I also vote for Photo Rag Peal for those images where a warm tone paper is required.

The Harman and Ilford you are considering pair together quite well as warm and cool tone options of a much smoother surfaced paper. I do prefer the richer textures of the Hahn papers though.

[jdoyle1713]

Ok I'll throw my .02 in hear..

Have you seen any of these or tried them?

Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss (Smooth )
Innova F Type Gloss ( Some Texture)
Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta
Epson Exhibition Fiber ( Thick and Stiff & ROLLS ARE COMING!! )
Museo Silver Rag

Just a Thought but if you tryied some sample packs you may find what you are looking for..If you want to Email me off list Or On for all the PK Papers Ill give you a list and run down. Anymore there are lots of choice and more are coming out this year. What it boils down to is what " The User" prefers..almost like Ice cream!! LOL Some many good choices..

Work with a supplier they may actually be able to discount pricing on inks papers and machines..There are plenty of us to choose from that would have what you are looking for!

Cheers
Jim Doyle
http://www.shadesofpaper.com