How much to charge?

[gerk]

Hi Folks

Hoping you can give me some pointers in the right direction.  I've been approached by a couple of people to do some paying work for them -- both doing shots for their portfolio's/demo kits after they have seen some of my photos that I've done at local jams that I've done some shooting at.  Both are musicians, so I don't want to overcharge them as I'm a musician myself and sympathetic to the fact that they are the preverbal starving artists ... but I also don't want to undersell myself at the same time.

Both of these shoots will probably involve spending an evening (or a good portion of it) at a live show doing action shots, then the typical post-processing, picking the shots with the clients, etc.  Not sure if any/how many actual prints would be involved for these.

Any pointers in the right direction would be great, not sure how the rates go in this sort of field.  Do you charge hourly?  By job?  Additional for each print required?

help!

[Ken Bennett]

You don't have to charge them all that much, as long as you clearly limit and delineate their usage rights in writing. For example, as long as they are starving musicians, they can use your photos for publicity, etc., BUT as soon as they get a record deal, and the record company wants to use your photos on the album cover, in advertising, etc., then they have to pay additional usage rights for those uses.

I charge by the project/job. Hourly rates only make sense for event coverage (and similar jobs) IMO. For prints, you can work that out in advance -- do they have the right to make prints from your files, or will you charge (marked-up) prices for whatever prints they want to order? Your shooting rate would likely change to reflect this.

It wouldn't hurt to ask around and see what other photographers in your area are getting for this sort of work. You don't want to significantly under-charge. (On the other hand, I know what shooters get for this sort of work around here, and I would never work for so little money. So it's a matter of perspective, I guess.)

Good luck.

[Morgan_Moore]

Hi Folks

Hoping you can give me some pointers in the right direction.  I've been approached by a couple of people to do some paying work for them -- both doing shots for their portfolio's/demo kits after they have seen some of my photos that I've done at local jams that I've done some shooting at.  Both are musicians, so I don't want to overcharge them as I'm a musician myself and sympathetic to the fact that they are the preverbal starving artists ... but I also don't want to undersell myself at the same time.

Both of these shoots will probably involve spending an evening (or a good portion of it) at a live show doing action shots, then the typical post-processing, picking the shots with the clients, etc.  Not sure if any/how many actual prints would be involved for these.

Any pointers in the right direction would be great, not sure how the rates go in this sort of field.  Do you charge hourly?  By job?  Additional for each print required?

help!

There are two methods

'buy market share' by working cheap (at a loss) and putting up your prices once you have clients

or

'charge what you must' by adding your desired income to your costs and getting a minimum

it is very hard to get started if you do the second and very hard to keep going if you do the first

--

Firstly understand on a typical commission you are selling two things

your time

a license for use

structure your invoices in this manner FROM DAY ONE

Under UK law persons paying for your time do not get a license as a matter of course

So one way in is to give your time for free and charge for license

ie - Let me show you what I can do and if you like the images you can then buy a license to use them

Try to start invoicing for post production too FROM DAY ONE

---

In the case of the aspiring musician you can

donate your time and then sell them a restriced licence to publish

The license could be 'for self promotion as an unsigned artist for a period of two years of the shoot'

So when they get signed by Polydor or Virgin you can then re-license the images for a significantly higher fee

Remember licenses dont have to be cheap

----

Please also remember there are professional photographers in your area making a living - maybe speak to some of them about what they charge and dont undercharge cut them too much

You may need to be thier friend sometime soon

In the uk google NUJ freelance rates - and you will see MINIMUMs charged by professionals

---

When you do your costings remember all your shiny new gear will be junk in three years time if your work it like a pro

S

ps reading the above post it says exactly the same thing

[Colorado David]

I would suggest you visit your local book store and buy/read something like Pricing Photography, An Essential Reference for Photographers.  When the discussion forum on the NANPA site first started (an extremely underutilized resource) there was a prohibition on the discussion of pricing due to fears of being accused of price fixing by a trade organization.  In 2007 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that there could be discussions of pricing without setting prices and those discussions would not be viewed as price fixing and they instructed the lower courts to use restraint.  It is still illegal for a trade organization to have a hand in setting prices.  At any rate, you can use the information in the above referenced book, or others like it to help develop your own individual professional services rate structure.  When licensing a photo, be very specific as to exactly what uses you are selling.  I would advise you to never sell all rights unless someone writes you a very big check.  There are also books available with sample legal forms you can use to develop your own licensing agreements.

[wollom]

Hi Folks

Hoping you can give me some pointers in the right direction.  I've been approached by a couple of people to do some paying work for them

Perhaps the first question is: Why do you want to charge anything?

If you want to work as professional photographer this job might be a great start and you'll want to think about all of the things like those mentioned above. It might also be worth considering all the other responsibilities you are taking on: public liability, third party accident, delivery of appropriate images, non-delivery of images etc.

Or you could just shoot the pics, learn, have fun and make the experience your reward.

Wollom

[gerk]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Wollom:  I understand what you are saying, but I have done a lot of freebie stuff already -- which is one of the reasons I got approached to do these paying jobs.  These people have seen my work and want to hire me.  While I do appreciate getting more experience I also do appreciate even a small amount of $$ to help offset what I spend on my gear!

[wollom]

While I do appreciate getting more experience I also do appreciate even a small amount of $$ to help offset what I spend on my gear! :D

That makes things a little simpler.  If the goal of asking for money is to help offset the cost of equipment, not to be a 'professional' photographer, ignore most of the advice given here. Parity with professional rates is not relevant, usage and copyright control is more trouble than it's worth.

Make sure you cover materials, transport and other costs. Add on the price of a nice meal for you and a friend.

Best

Wollom

[gerk]

That makes things a little simpler.  If the goal of asking for money is to help offset the cost of equipment, not to be a 'professional' photographer, ignore most of the advice given here. Parity with professional rates is not relevant, usage and copyright control is more trouble than it's worth.

Make sure you cover materials, transport and other costs. Add on the price of a nice meal for you and a friend.

Best

Wollom

Thanks Wollom ... that seems like pretty sound advice.

I don't think I'm quite ready to try and become a real "professional photographer" at this point in the game, but I am ready to take on the odd job for a fellow musician here and there, mostly to help them out and gain more experience.  At some point down the road who knows, depending on how things work out doing this sort of thing.  I may want to take that extra step, but for now I think I'll be happy to get a little bit of $$ coming in to offset the thousands of dollars I've spent on gear