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Author Topic: Defining a Workflow  (Read 8038 times)

Roger Calixto

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Defining a Workflow
« on: January 10, 2009, 06:33:03 pm »

Hi all,

Like everything in this digital age, it's all possible if you know how. If you want to learn, google's your best friend. BUT, I'm at a turning point. I want to start to take my photography seriously and that means using the (digital) tools for what their worth and creating a workflow. I'm a Computer Engineer, so understanding computers isn't the problem, it's finding the proper guidance.

I need to learn to do the basic editing for print... but right this time. I know how to do a lot of it but I lack objectivity. I know how to sharpen, but how MUCH is the question. I know how to correct colors, but how much is too much? How do I know when if I don't know when? I guess what I seek is a tutorial / book / resource that is like taking a class at a community college. Something that shows the ropes and points out the pitfalls. The problem is that everyone and their brother has a book or a webpage on the subject.

I've found this DPReview e-book. Reputable site for starters, but does anyone else have any suggestions? Here there is the from Camera to Print, which covers a lot too, but is that where I should start?

(BTW I live in a country where I still don't dominate the language, so the local college is out of the question)    

Thanks!
KT
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Steven Draper

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Defining a Workflow
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2009, 09:39:13 pm »

KT, Hello and welcome to LL.

In all honesty this site is a great place to be exposed to all sorts of information, especially in the index and articles. Many of the contributors of the site / forums are high end artists, photographers who sell their work or work on assignments.

As such workflows vary from person to person and from image to image. Also technology moves really fast so workflows tweak too!

I have a couple of workflows depending on what I am doing.

Generally camera enhancements all off, shoot raw, modes to suit situation - tripod if I can.
Load into Lightroom 2, file convention ( YYMMDD-customtext-sequence)
There are lots of thoughts on storage structure!!!

For quick edits / general images.

There is a lot of thoughts suggesting that the more 'processing' that you can do to the RAW file the better. This opens a long debate as to what is the best raw convertor, and does it have all the process functions! In general I find for NEF files that LR does a perfectly adequate job on most general images. There are lots of theories, but just play around, move the sliders into all sorts of places and if you don't like it just hit reset or move back a few stages in the history!! Once you have a good looking image just copy the setting to similar images. Too Easy.... well it depends on your experience and eye, but from a technical point of view most people should be able to process a goods starter image to a good looking screen or general small print before too long.  Not I do not say great photo, that depends on achieving a number of factors and to do so consistently does require skill in many areas.

A few key things to help and subject of many online articles are the histogram and removing any unwanted colour hues. Of course a decent monitor makes this much easier, along with tuning in the eyes that happens over time.
 
DXO is another rawconvertor / processor that I use - it is very powerful having lens correction tools and I prefer it to LR for cleaning up images, but it takes longer to get the hang of and use.

A more traditional workflow involves the use of a RAW convertor to provide a 16bit TIFF, with very few additional corrections made during conversion.
Tiff then opened in Photoshop. This is very generic and each stage may have several sub stages and methods depending on subject, style and photographer! The order is somewhat subjective too, but more critical when working on a TIFF, especially if using layers.

Duplicate file!!!!
Correct lens distortion, perspective, horizon etc
Initial WB and Hue adjustment if large adjustment required.
Crop (either here or at the end)
Capture sharpen
Adjust levels / exposure
Adjust tonal balance (curves)
Second Correct WB / Colour hues (some will do this much earlier and if big error, but adjusting levels, exposure and curves can alter the color balance
Noise reduction
Local adjustments to colour / tone / contrast and sharpness

Save as a Master File

Crop
Size for output
Adjust and sharpen for output

Save as a specific file.


Hope this helps, it all seems very over complex at first, and will suddenly seem to become even more complex as you start to learn that there is so much that it seems necessary to learn. But seriously just play around and if you get stuck scan the web. There is a huge amount of information about taking the technical aspects of an image from 80% to the high 90's, specific techniques / styles and if you want to make large prints that you may want to learn later , but if you have a good photographic eye just experiment with levels,  curves and WB and the rest will start to come by February!!!

All the best
Steven
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Ken Bennett

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Defining a Workflow
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2009, 10:03:04 pm »

May I suggest two books, Real World Photoshop and Real World Camera Raw. Buy the appropriate book for the version that you are using. These books have been immensely helpful in my career.
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PeterAit

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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2009, 03:10:37 pm »

Quote from: kingtutt
Hi all,

Like everything in this digital age, it's all possible if you know how. If you want to learn, google's your best friend. BUT, I'm at a turning point. I want to start to take my photography seriously and that means using the (digital) tools for what their worth and creating a workflow. I'm a Computer Engineer, so understanding computers isn't the problem, it's finding the proper guidance.

I need to learn to do the basic editing for print... but right this time. I know how to do a lot of it but I lack objectivity. I know how to sharpen, but how MUCH is the question. I know how to correct colors, but how much is too much? How do I know when if I don't know when? I guess what I seek is a tutorial / book / resource that is like taking a class at a community college. Something that shows the ropes and points out the pitfalls. The problem is that everyone and their brother has a book or a webpage on the subject.

I've found this DPReview e-book. Reputable site for starters, but does anyone else have any suggestions? Here there is the from Camera to Print, which covers a lot too, but is that where I should start?

(BTW I live in a country where I still don't dominate the language, so the local college is out of the question)    

Thanks!
KT

Welcome. I too am slowly learning the details of digital photograph. I was a dedicated "wet" photographer for many years but got tired of spending so much time in a smelly darkroom, so got away from it. Only recently can digital create the quality of prints I want, so I am getting involved again.

Some of your questions don't really have to do with workflow. For example, sharpening - when you apply sharpening is a workflow question, but how much to apply is a personal judgment. Ditto for color adjustments. Objectivity does not - or at least should not - come into it. The goal is to produce prints that reflect your own vision and preferences.

Of course, the first steps are to learn technique fundamentals, that's what I am doing now. I recommend the book Scott Kelby's 7-Point System for Photoshop (assuming that's the program you use). It is unique among all the books I have seen in that it presents you with 20 problematic RAW photos and walks you through all the steps required to fix them. Of course, Kelby's approach is hardly the only one that works, but I have found it useful for learning what tols are available in Photoshop and what sorts of problems they can be applied to.

Good luck,

Peter
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Morgan_Moore

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Defining a Workflow
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2009, 03:21:49 pm »

Quote from: kingtutt
Hi all,

Like everything in this digital age, it's all possible if you know how. If you want to learn, google's your best friend. BUT, I'm at a turning point. I want to start to take my photography seriously and that means using the (digital) tools for what their worth and creating a workflow. I'm a Computer Engineer, so understanding computers isn't the problem, it's finding the proper guidance.

I need to learn to do the basic editing for print... but right this time. I know how to do a lot of it but I lack objectivity. I know how to sharpen, but how MUCH is the question. I know how to correct colors, but how much is too much? How do I know when if I don't know when? I guess what I seek is a tutorial / book / resource that is like taking a class at a community college. Something that shows the ropes and points out the pitfalls. The problem is that everyone and their brother has a book or a webpage on the subject.

I've found this DPReview e-book. Reputable site for starters, but does anyone else have any suggestions? Here there is the from Camera to Print, which covers a lot too, but is that where I should start?

(BTW I live in a country where I still don't dominate the language, so the local college is out of the question)    

Thanks!
KT

Heres an idea

print some prints and if they look good you have got it right

Maybe take some photos of stuff you can have near your monitor and printer like a bowl of fruit - then you can look at your screen, your prints and the real items

I started off in a darkroom (like the poster above) dont know about you KT

I learned to use my printer by doing test strips - not very techy but there goes

My printer (epson 3800 with epson paper) pretty much works out of the box - you are digging a grave if you go for third party inks and papers most likely

Do get an Eye One calibrator or whatever the latest toy is for your screen - it will reduce pain

---

the mugs guide to sharpening

sharpen (unsharp mask) until you see halos appear on screen and dial back a bit

S



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Roger Calixto

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Defining a Workflow
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2009, 05:16:47 pm »

Thanks all for the replies and the welcome!
Steven: great post, I'll take your workflow as a start

And thanks for the book recommendations. I looked onto the 2 suggestions and will probably end up buying one of them. I'll post my choice and review later =)

Cheers and good hunting
[]
Roger
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Steven Draper

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Defining a Workflow
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2009, 03:53:03 pm »

Thanks, No problem - please keep us posted!
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Roger Calixto

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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2009, 04:50:42 pm »

So I ordered "Photoshop CS4 Workflow: The Digital Photographer's Guide" by Tim Grey. Seems to be more or less what I'm looking for. I also watched the video tutorials on the canon site which were extremely helpful. Actually learned how to use DPP in a worthwhile way and indirectly also created a workflow for processing my raw files. Was exactly what I needed for starters. Now I'll wait for the book and hope it walks me through the rest of the steps I need.

I'll keep y'all posted =)

KT
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Roger Calixto

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Defining a Workflow
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2009, 04:26:18 pm »

My book hasn't arrived yet but I came across a site that is exactly what I'm looking for (I think).

lynda.com

They have an excellent and extensive "digital library" of courses and tutorials. A bunch on photoshop. You can get a monthly unlimited online access for $25.

Cheers
KT
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Roger Calixto

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Defining a Workflow
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2009, 03:23:07 am »

As if on cue my book arrived, after I spent a few hours last night installing the trial version of PS CS4 and lightroom. I think the combination of this book and Lynda.com, I'll learn everything I need to know and then some! Maybe I'll go from student to "helpful colleague" sometime soon =)

{}
KT
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01af

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Defining a Workflow
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2009, 04:32:45 am »

Bruce Fraser's and Jeff Schewe's "Real-World Camera Raw" book already has been mentioned. It's mostly about how to get the most out of your raw files using Adobe Camera Raw but also covers the basic workflow issues. Of course it's Adobe-centered so it'll be most useful when you're using Brigde and Photoshop or Lightroom.

Another must-have book is Peter Krogh's "The DAM Book---Digital Asset Management for Photographers". He's also running a web site including a user forum at http://www.thedambook.com. I'd suggest to adopt his workflow and stick to it ... even when some approaches may seem counter-intuitive at first---like keeping original files and derived files strictly separate. Everything he recommends does make sense, no matter whether you have only a few thousand images or hundreds of thousands of them. Krogh's procedures scale well to any archive size.

-- Olaf
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jjj

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« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2009, 07:43:33 am »

Quote from: 01af
Another must-have book is Peter Krogh's "The DAM Book---Digital Asset Management for Photographers". He's also running a web site including a user forum at http://www.thedambook.com. I'd suggest to adopt his workflow and stick to it ... even when some approaches may seem counter-intuitive at first---like keeping original files and derived files strictly separate. Everything he recommends does make sense, no matter whether you have only a few thousand images or hundreds of thousands of them. Krogh's procedures scale well to any archive size.
I spent some time digesting PK's ideas a while back and whilst there was some good stuff in there, I found some of it a bit useless and impractical in reality. IIRC it was folder and file naming that annoyed me as it took no account of the fact that it was humans and not computers that had to read the information. It also lacked a bit of flexibility to adapt to indviduals filing methods. Also I gave up on DVDs for archiving a long time ago, too small and too slow, so DVD sized buckets didn't really make sense any more.
Unfortunately as I didn't archive my thoughts on his work to my clone [it takes so damn long], my memory of his ideas may be corrupted and be completly wrong.    
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ChrisS

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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2009, 08:53:39 am »

Quote from: kingtutt
My book hasn't arrived yet but I came across a site that is exactly what I'm looking for (I think).

lynda.com

They have an excellent and extensive "digital library" of courses and tutorials. A bunch on photoshop. You can get a monthly unlimited online access for $25.

Cheers
KT

How's Lynda going? Is it still working for you? The cost's equivalent to about one book per month, and I'm wondering which is the best way to go.

Chris
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Roger Calixto

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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2009, 09:40:23 am »

I would have to say that, for me, it's the perfect combination. I take the course online and learn what i need and can. I've been doing a kind of last minute cram. Then I use a book and notes to remember later. Just like my systems neuroscience course =)

Another good thing, which might be better for you is to order a Cd of the courses. Then you'd always have them and wouldn't necessarily need the book. DVD + Google should do it. What I reall was keen on was a video based *something*. Videos really make the difference for me. It's like going to class, but easier since i can rewind and replay when I want.

Lemme know what you choose =)
KT
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 09:40:43 am by kingtutt »
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