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Author Topic: DAM Suggestions  (Read 5189 times)

Stretch Tuemmler

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« on: January 07, 2009, 10:13:05 am »

I'm hoping to get some feedback on Microsoft Expression Media 2 on the Mac.  If you are using it, has it been a good solution?  Any major issues?

Thanks, Stretch Tuemmler
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usathyan

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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2009, 01:08:55 pm »

I not an expert on this topic, however - i did use iView before it became microsoft, and now use LR 2 for managing the process....I do have Expressions Media installed - but dont use it. Just havent had the need for it since version 2 of LR. It pretty much covers all the basics. The only thing that it doesnt do - is if you need a single tool to manage documents, movies and photos - Expressions media may be worth it.

If you however, use a tool such as LR or Aperture - you will need to figure out your workflow as to where you would manage your process for photos...

Good luck!
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jjj

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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2009, 02:11:27 pm »

Quote from: usathyan
Just havent had the need for it since version 2 of LR. The only thing that it doesnt do - is if you need a single tool to manage documents, movies and photos - Expressions media may be worth it.
That's my main bugbear with LR, it simply fails to recognise many of the files I use for photography, inc big chunks of my portfolio. And a DAM app that requires the use of a second DAM app is pretty useless really as the point of such a programme is to organize all your files not a subset of them.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 02:11:51 pm by jjj »
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Stretch Tuemmler

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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2009, 03:45:15 pm »

I did try using LR as a DAM which worked ok but had some limitations: Large files were a problem, no cmyk support and slow.  But the previews are very nice.  Then I upgraded to version 2.1.  We archive jobs to DVD for offline storage so the file folders go red which tells you it's offline but where to find it.  So all was fine before the upgrade, after the upgrade no thumbnails.  After talking to an Adobe Tech he admitted that a serious limitation to LR is dealing with files stored offline.  LR wanted to build new thumbnails with its new ACR engine but could not access the files since they were offline.  He said this will be a problem on any major upgrade unless Adobe changes things.  Major problem... So I said it's time to go back to a full featured DAM.  We used to use Extensis Portfolio but we found it clunky and just difficult to figure out.

We shoot teathered with CaptureOne so the hope is the two programs will intergrate somewhat, which is there plan.  But of course the question is how long that will take.  Right now PhaseOne raw files are not even supported.  We also shoot with Canon's which are supported.  So basically just want to make sure EM2 doesn't have any major problems I am missing before I go through the long task of cataloging hundreds of DVD's.

Thanks,

Stretch


That's my main bugbear with LR, it simply fails to recognise many of the files I use for photography, inc big chunks of my portfolio. And a DAM app that requires the use of a second DAM app is pretty useless really as the point of such a programme is to organize all your files not a subset of them.
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David Mantripp

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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2009, 05:01:33 pm »

EM2 works as well as iView Media Pro (IVMP) did, which is very well, very fast, and much less clunky than Portfolio. However it doesn't have the workgroup support that Portfolio offers (at a considerable cost, mind)

I used to be a heavy IVMP user, but these days I just use it (EM2 as is now) for managing legacy stuff and the odd scan.  I now use Aperture, which has (to my tastes, anyway) far better DAM functionality than Lr, but neither can touch EM2/IVMP for flexibility, speed and intuitiveness.

The main problem with EM2 is that it lacks any kind of RAW workflow functionality. Which theoretically is irrelevant, but when it is up against two cheaper rivals, both with average to good DAM functionality, as well as excellent RAW workflow tools, it really is up s**t creek without a paddle.

I argued ages ago that an integration of IVMP and CaptureOne would have made a fantastic tool... pity it never happened.
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David Mantripp

Stretch Tuemmler

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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2009, 05:15:44 pm »

Hopefully we are getting closer to intergration.  This is what Phase has to say about file support & intergration:

As we speak the Phase files are not supported in EM2!
This will however soon be changed - and also there will be a better integration between the 2 applications.
 
I can not tell you at this point exactly what features will be included, but will guarantee you a better overall integration and of course Phase file support.
 
One of the reasons we are already promoting EM2 and Capture One is because of the thousands of photographers that use DSLR cameras - which files are supported.
Best regards,

Claus M. Pedersen


From: Stretch Tuemmler [mailto:stretch@stretchstudio.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:31 AM
To: Phase One Marketing
Subject: Re: EM2

Hi Claus,

I'm re-sending my reply with this added.  Looking into EM2's user guide I find no support for PhaseOne raw files.  I have attached a screen shot.  As well I've attached a reply from Microsoft from Oct regarding the same issue.  How can Phase promote EM2 when the files are not supported or am I missing something?

Thanks,

Stretch


I argued ages ago that an integration of IVMP and CaptureOne would have made a fantastic tool... pity it never happened.

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Pete Ferling

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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2009, 11:41:03 pm »

LR is good when photos is your only media.  In regards to finding out where images are stored, I have a process where I methodically place the location of the image into the searchable meta-data of the file.  That is, when I burn a DVD, I add "DVD###" as a keyword.  Anal?  Yes.

Now, at corporate, we use cumulus, and that program will work with adobe DNGs, AND it will recognize and use the embedded LR meta data for searches.  Cumulus has a web based portal that allows our clients/employees to search the files based on keywords and then download the RAW or convert it to another format.  So, for instance, I perform a shoot in Penn State Hosp, and over lunch edit on my labtop, add meta data in LR, then upload to cumulus.  Then our designers in North Carolina or Europe can search for and download the same DNGs, (the latest version has plugins that hook directly in Bridge) and import them in to PS for their own work.  All of my edits preserved.

Of course, cumulus is very good DAM software and will work with all the other media types we can throw at it.  Using DNGs is the key to making that work, and I simply can't pass LR up for the time it saves me in processing my work.
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dchew

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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2009, 11:18:52 am »

I've used iView Media Pro, Portfolio (at work) and LR.

I would define their targets this way:

iView / EM:  Photographers and/or graphic arts folks who have many different types of media.  They often create layouts, videos and other production materials (like ad layouts, calanders, etc.).

Portfolio:  Geared more towards a graphics department that needs a server and/or online application.  Again, handles many different media.

LR:  Strictly photographers that don't do all that much of their own outputs other than straight prints of photos.

If you can't put yourself into one of these buckets, perhaps EM is the best option.

I too used iVew at home until I got used to LR.  

Dave Chew
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Stretch Tuemmler

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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2009, 11:56:42 am »

Dave, My main beef with LR is the problem it has with files kept offline.  Everything else I can get around.  There is no way we can keep everything online, just way too many files.  As I said all was good until we upgraded and LR wanted to generate new previews but could not find the files.  We probably have well over 1,000 DVD's of files stored offline.  There is a lot I really like about LR.  It's really too bad.  Thanks for your input.


Quote from: dchew
I've used iView Media Pro, Portfolio (at work) and LR.

I would define their targets this way:

iView / EM:  Photographers and/or graphic arts folks who have many different types of media.  They often create layouts, videos and other production materials (like ad layouts, calanders, etc.).

Portfolio:  Geared more towards a graphics department that needs a server and/or online application.  Again, handles many different media.

LR:  Strictly photographers that don't do all that much of their own outputs other than straight prints of photos.

If you can't put yourself into one of these buckets, perhaps EM is the best option.

I too used iVew at home until I got used to LR.  

Dave Chew
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dchew

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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2009, 07:48:37 pm »

Stretch,

I agree with your comments about LR's limitations, but there is one thing I don't understand.  You state there are no "thumbnails" with LR2 when files are off-line.  That's not the case.  Obviously you can't work in Develop if files are off-line, but you can view the thumbnails regardless of whether the files are there or not.  In fact, you can keyword and add metatada to the database when they are off-line (then hard-write those changes to the files later if you want).  

Did you have a situation where you could not view the thumbnails of your image files when they were off-line?

It sounds to me like you have a group of people in your organization, so I would think a bigger limitation would be that you can't store the database on a server with LR.  I agree that EM 2 would be the best for your application, if only it handled the P1 files.

Dave Chew

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Stretch Tuemmler

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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2009, 08:20:39 pm »

Dave, you misunderstood me.  LR handles files offline fine until it's time for a major upgrade.  When I upgraded to version 2.1 LR asked if it would like me to convert my catalog for use in version 2.1.  I said yes, it converts the file and trues to build new thumbnails but cannot since the files are offline.  I believe the thumbnails became ? marks.  So I trashed the catalog, trashed LR 2.1 and went back to 1.4 using my backup copy which works fine but has no future in added features.  As stated Adobe tech says this is a shortcome of LR because it will always want to build new thumbnails using the latest ACR engine on a major upgrade.  Minor upgrades are no problem.

Stretch Tuemmler

Quote from: dchew
Stretch,

I agree with your comments about LR's limitations, but there is one thing I don't understand.  You state there are no "thumbnails" with LR2 when files are off-line.  That's not the case.  Obviously you can't work in Develop if files are off-line, but you can view the thumbnails regardless of whether the files are there or not.  In fact, you can keyword and add metatada to the database when they are off-line (then hard-write those changes to the files later if you want).  

Did you have a situation where you could not view the thumbnails of your image files when they were off-line?

It sounds to me like you have a group of people in your organization, so I would think a bigger limitation would be that you can't store the database on a server with LR.  I agree that EM 2 would be the best for your application, if only it handled the P1 files.

Dave Chew
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