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Author Topic: Swatchbooks  (Read 5583 times)

Justan

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« on: January 04, 2009, 05:10:13 pm »

Do most paper vendors offer a swatchbook of their offerings?

I have one from HP. I looked for Hahnemuhle at their web site, but didn't find one. I could easily have been looking in the wrong areas. Do they as well as Ilford, Epson and others offer these?

TIA

jasonrandolph

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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2009, 07:27:51 pm »

I don't know about anyone offering swatchbooks, but many paper manufacturers offer sampler packs.  I bought one for Hahnemuhle papers which was quite useful.  Decently priced too.

bill t.

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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2009, 07:42:32 pm »

The miserly attitude of paper manufacturers towards swatch books is the industry's greatest mystery.  Sure they're expensive to produce, but I would happily pay for them.

I have swatchbooks from Moab, Han., Epson (rather old) and a few others  All of these were obtained at trade shows, sometimes only after a bit of chit chat with the guys running the booth.  If you go to the PMA convention in Vegas (in March I think) you can probably pick up a bunch.
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Justan

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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2009, 06:37:30 pm »

Quote from: jasonrandolph
I don't know about anyone offering swatchbooks, but many paper manufacturers offer sampler packs.  I bought one for Hahnemuhle papers which was quite useful.  Decently priced too.

Are the sampler packs a retail product? Where did you get it?

Justan

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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2009, 06:38:52 pm »

Quote from: bill t.
The miserly attitude of paper manufacturers towards swatch books is the industry's greatest mystery.  Sure they're expensive to produce, but I would happily pay for them.

I have swatchbooks from Moab, Han., Epson (rather old) and a few others  All of these were obtained at trade shows, sometimes only after a bit of chit chat with the guys running the booth.  If you go to the PMA convention in Vegas (in March I think) you can probably pick up a bunch.

Going to LV would be a fun way to get a swatch!

jasonrandolph

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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2009, 07:22:59 pm »

Quote from: Justan
Are the sampler packs a retail product? Where did you get it?

Yes, they are retail.  i got mine from B & H, but I'm sure any retailer that sells fine art paper could get it.  If I remember right, you get 2 sheets each of nine different papers in 8.5 x 11" size for about $22.  Well worth the money since it will give you a preview of the results you would get with larger sizes.

bill t.

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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2009, 10:42:33 pm »

Inkjetart.com offers quite a few different sampler packs from all the biggies.  About $10 to $20.  All of them are 8.5" x 11", mostly only 1 or 2 sheets which really isn't enough to characterize an unfamiliar paper but at least it's a start.
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Justan

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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2009, 02:55:45 am »

Quote from: bill t.
Inkjetart.com offers quite a few different sampler packs from all the biggies.  About $10 to $20.  All of them are 8.5" x 11", mostly only 1 or 2 sheets which really isn't enough to characterize an unfamiliar paper but at least it's a start.

Thanks for the excellent reference! So i went to the site and they have a bevy of assortment packs. It almost seems like too many!

Having never seen them, but having read several comments here, I'm intrigued by Hahnemuhle's papers, so i'm gonna get the Hahnemuhle FA Variety Sample and the Hahnemule Bamboo and Baryta Sample.

Would anyone care to suggest another assortment?

HP says some of their "archive" papers are stable for up to 80 years. By at least this standard, are all of the higher end papers "archive" quality?


Justan

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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2009, 03:20:22 am »

Quote from: jasonrandolph
Yes, they are retail.  i got mine from B & H, but I'm sure any retailer that sells fine art paper could get it.  If I remember right, you get 2 sheets each of nine different papers in 8.5 x 11" size for about $22.  Well worth the money since it will give you a preview of the results you would get with larger sizes.

What a great site B&H is! I got pleasantly lost looking through used equipment, then lighting, then other cameras and finally got around to paper. They have a bunch of samples by a number of vendors.

My goal is to settle on a few paper types. What are some of the criteria you use for deciding on a type of paper? HP says that their papers work best with their inks. What does this really mean? Is the ink/paper combination more stable, show a wider gamut? Or is the claim largely hype?

neil snape

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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2009, 07:04:33 am »

Some makers have swatchbooks, others have sample packs. AFAIK Hahnemuhle have sample packs only. Permajet have a swatchbook. Harman have sample packs, etc.
At big shows you can find many sample packs, often printed with the names of the media on the back.
HP media are indeed spec'd for their requirements. In most cases they are built upon the paper mill's already good base, but exceed the qualities of generic coatings to a degree that has to be seen to be believed. The permanence however is not going to be improved in way of the base, but perhaps slightly in the way of lightfastness.
If anything HP printers are running better on their own papers, whereas Epson can print on quite a few more surfaces without problem. The quality with HP printers and HP papers though can rival any other system and combination with certain image types.
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Ernst Dinkla

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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2009, 07:18:22 am »

Quote from: Justan
Do most paper vendors offer a swatchbook of their offerings?

I have one from HP. I looked for Hahnemuhle at their web site, but didn't find one. I could easily have been looking in the wrong areas. Do they as well as Ilford, Epson and others offer these?

TIA

The ones I have are from HP, Hahnemühle, Innova (2), Epson, Fujifilm, 3P, Tepede and I made a general one of samples tried.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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jasonrandolph

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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2009, 11:01:03 am »

Quote from: Justan
What a great site B&H is! I got pleasantly lost looking through used equipment, then lighting, then other cameras and finally got around to paper. They have a bunch of samples by a number of vendors.

My goal is to settle on a few paper types. What are some of the criteria you use for deciding on a type of paper? HP says that their papers work best with their inks. What does this really mean? Is the ink/paper combination more stable, show a wider gamut? Or is the claim largely hype?

B&H is a great resource.  I've ordered cameras, lenses, and various other products from them.  Shipping is pretty fast, even out here to Hawaii.  They are a store that can be trusted.

As for papers, I print on an Epson 3800, and I use primarily Epson for RC papers and Hahnemuhle for matte/rag papers.  While every printer manufacturer will claim that their own papers work best, don't fall into this trap.  Their own papers will work well, but there are others that meet or exceed the standards of their own papers.  I'm actually switching away from Epson papers because I was told that their coated papers aren't acid-free.  Hahnemuhle is my choice because of the quality of the prints I get, and also because of the tactile quality of their rag papers.  Holding a Bamboo fine art print is a very pleasant experience.

Good luck in your search!

Justan

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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2009, 10:22:15 am »

Quote from: Ernst Dinkla
The ones I have are from HP, Hahnemühle, Innova (2), Epson, Fujifilm, 3P, Tepede and I made a general one of samples tried.


Ernst Dinkla

Thanks! How many different papers do you use over a year?

Justan

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« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2009, 10:26:54 am »

Quote from: jasonrandolph
B&H is a great resource.  I've ordered cameras, lenses, and various other products from them.  Shipping is pretty fast, even out here to Hawaii.  They are a store that can be trusted.

Hmmm. it is a nice candy store! I'll be back, no doubt!

Quote
As for papers, I print on an Epson 3800, and I use primarily Epson for RC papers and Hahnemuhle for matte/rag papers.  While every printer manufacturer will claim that their own papers work best, don't fall into this trap.  Their own papers will work well, but there are others that meet or exceed the standards of their own papers.  I'm actually switching away from Epson papers because I was told that their coated papers aren't acid-free.  Hahnemuhle is my choice because of the quality of the prints I get, and also because of the tactile quality of their rag papers.  Holding a Bamboo fine art print is a very pleasant experience.

This is excellent feedback! From the reading here, Hahnemuhle is the premium paper of choice.

Do your clients ever provide feedback on paper choices?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 10:46:15 am by Justan »
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jasonrandolph

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« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2009, 10:35:39 am »

Quote from: Justan
Hmmm. it is a nice candy store! I'll be back, no doubt!



This is excellent feedback! From the reading here, Hahnemuhle is the premium paper of choice.

Do your clients every provide feedback on paper choices?

Most like the "feel" of the paper.  They like the weight, and I've only heard good things about B&W tones.  

Don't let that stop you from testing out other papers though.  For baryta papers, I hear Harmon FB AI is really good.  But once you find a few papers you like, stick to them.  They will provide a more predictable print, which will save you $$$.

Ernst Dinkla

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« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2009, 04:41:13 pm »

Quote from: Justan
Thanks! How many different papers do you use over a year?

About 10 at most.
Collecting paper qualities in swatchbooks doesn't mean I need to print on all the qualities.
But when you need a quality it isn't something you can discuss on the phone, it has to be in your hands or in the hand of your customer.
For silkscreen printing I still have a much wider collection of paper/media samples.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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Justan

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« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2009, 02:57:27 pm »

Quote from: Ernst Dinkla
About 10 at most.
Collecting paper qualities in swatchbooks doesn't mean I need to print on all the qualities.
But when you need a quality it isn't something you can discuss on the phone, it has to be in your hands or in the hand of your customer.
For silkscreen printing I still have a much wider collection of paper/media samples.


Ernst Dinkla

Thanks, Ernst!

I was curious about the variety to begin to get a sense of what others do by way of different print media. I understand that paper is a tactile experience and can't be conveyed by phone or image. Do customers provide a lot of input into the paper choices? Do you or others encourage this kind of thing?

Justan

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« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2009, 03:01:22 pm »

Quote from: jasonrandolph
Most like the "feel" of the paper.  They like the weight, and I've only heard good things about B&W tones.  

Don't let that stop you from testing out other papers though.  For baryta papers, I hear Harmon FB AI is really good.  But once you find a few papers you like, stick to them.  They will provide a more predictable print, which will save you $$$.

Great feedback!

I'm just dipping my toes into the wide range of offerings currently available. By the feedback you and others are providing I'm able to save a lot of time and expense in experimenting.

I’ll take a look at Harmon papers.

My printer was supposed to arrive today but due to lots of rain and melting snow, 2 of the major roadways to my place are closed for I have no idea how long.

jasonrandolph

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« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2009, 03:55:36 pm »

Quote from: Justan
Great feedback!

I'm just dipping my toes into the wide range of offerings currently available. By the feedback you and others are providing I'm able to save a lot of time and expense in experimenting.

I’ll take a look at Harmon papers.

My printer was supposed to arrive today but due to lots of rain and melting snow, 2 of the major roadways to my place are closed for I have no idea how long.

Congrats on the new printer!  Getting that first really great print out of your new printer is fun.
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