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Author Topic: PC versus MAC- apples to apples  (Read 4382 times)

mdijb

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PC versus MAC- apples to apples
« on: January 02, 2009, 12:34:26 pm »

PC"s are much cheaper than an entry level Mac Pro( 8 core chip).  However the chips in the PC are not the sam as mac.  To compare apples to apples, what would a PC with comparable specs to a MAc pro cost?.  WOuld the costs be similar?
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jjj

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PC versus MAC- apples to apples
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2009, 04:45:03 pm »

Actually you can buy PCs with the same chips, they just lack a bit of special code to run OSX. A Mac is in fact a PC and has been for a while, it's just packaged differently and can also run OSX as well as Windows which can be very useful. You can always buy a similar specced PC fopr less. Notice that Apple always compare prices against Dell who oddly enough are not the cheapest supplier, but you can also buy more expensive PCs than those made by Apple if you want to.
The other thing is that Apples are best bought when they first come out as they do not get updated continously like PCs tend to bbe, so an 18month old Mac may have a 18month old chip in it - not good value.
Go here Apple buyers guide to get a rough idea if buying an Apple product is a good/bad move, depending if it has been around for a while.

The sensible reason you buy a Mac over a PC is that you prefer OSX over Windows, not just because it's prettier than a cheap PC.
I use both and find in reality there is little difference as both are good and both have many annoying flaws, just in different places, e.g. file mangement and dual monitor support is poor on OSX comapred to windows, yet many other things are much nicer, like the new trackpads. Swings and roundabouts.
Also Macs do not just work, there are PCs with an Aple on them and are prone to the same issues of duff parts and buggy software. Apple release bug fixes and patches just as much as MS.
Apple only give a one year guarrantee, whereas many other manufacturers give 3 or 5 year for their kit.
If you use Apple, there is no real reason to switch to to a PC and if you use a PC there is no real reason to switch to a Mac, unless you really prefer one OS over the other.


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mdijb

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PC versus MAC- apples to apples
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2009, 09:50:05 pm »

THANKS for your reply.  When I compare machines with similar chips, like the 8 core chip on the entry level Mac pro to PC's with similar chips, and then add in the memory and  add in the hard drives i come up with pricees that are similar--am I correct or is there somethiing I am missing?  The OS is not a consideration--I have been a MAC user for a long time and my question relates to the hardware costs only.

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new_haven

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PC versus MAC- apples to apples
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2009, 10:58:26 pm »

As far as I know, Apple has not yet released a mac pro with intel's latest processor, the i7. Furthermore, cs4 runs as a 64 bit application under vista 64, but not the mac os. The mac pro uses two quad processors for a total of 8 cores, but it does not have an 8 core processor. On the pc side, the i7 processors are quad, but are multi threaded. Anyway, the i7 is a significant upgrade from core 2 quad, so I'm sure you could buy/build a faster and cheaper pc i7 system than the current mac pro.  But I'm sure Apple will be releasing a new mac pro based on intel i7 processors in the near future.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2009, 10:59:16 pm by new_haven »
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plugsnpixels

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PC versus MAC- apples to apples
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2009, 02:59:03 am »

Here's something of interest, the latest twist on running OS-X on PC hardware. Doing so gives you a machine much faster than a Mac Pro at a fraction of the cost:

EFI-X Boot Module and PC Kit

"Running Mac OS X on generic PC hardware is not a new idea; the OSx86 Project has been hacking Mac OS X to run on non-Apple hardware for several years now. But that "Hackintosh" is an iffy proposition, with incomplete driver support and the risk that any Apple Mac OS X updates may break the system, rendering it unusable. The OSx86 Project tends to lag real Macs with security and bug fix updates — it's interesting, but not something on which to base a serious workflow.

"But there's another option now: the $199 EFI-X USB Boot Module. This device, which connects directly to a PC motherboard's USB connector, is a complete implementation of the Extensible Firmware Interface specification, which Apple uses as the boot environment for Intel Macs. EFI specifies an interface between operating system and firmware, and the EFI firmware, in turn, communicates with the underlying hardware.

"Here, a generic Intel-based PC boots up from the EFI-X module; the EFI-X module then builds a full EFI environment in memory that can boot any operating system that speaks EFI, including Windows Vista x64, Linux, OpenSolaris, HP-UX... and Mac OS X. No hacks, no custom drivers — it just works."

See much more info at the link above.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2009, 03:00:07 am by plugsnpixels »
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budjames

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PC versus MAC- apples to apples
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2009, 05:13:23 am »

At least with a Mac you don't have to live with Vista. That's worth the difference in price along, if one really exists.

I was a previous PC user, but now I'm really enjoying my MacPro 8-core w/12GB RAM, 4TB internal storage as well as a new MacBook Pro 15" aluminum brick and Macs for the kids.

I have a Dell Precision 470 workstation with Dual Xeon processors, 2GB RAM and internal 320GB RAID 0 drives for sale cheap. I'll even through in my copy of Vista Business. Make me an offer.

Cheers.
Bud James
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Plekto

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PC versus MAC- apples to apples
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2009, 02:21:42 pm »

Quote from: plugsnpixels
Here's something of interest, the latest twist on running OS-X on PC hardware. Doing so gives you a machine much faster than a Mac Pro at a fraction of the cost:

EFI-X Boot Module and PC Kit

I give them about 3-4 weeks before they get sued into oblivion.  Buy one now if you want to do this.(or used on Ebay...)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 03:42:32 pm by Plekto »
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jjj

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PC versus MAC- apples to apples
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2009, 02:56:23 pm »

The EFI-X solution has been around for quite a while and Apple have ignored them. Lots of talk on the Mac forums about using it after Apple's recent anaemic output.
If it would work OK with Laptops [it needs plugs in to an internal USB port], the major bone of contention, a lot of OSX users would buy a PC to run their OS of choice. I want a 13" pro laptop with Firewire and a matte high res screen, other's want big laptops as revolutionary as Lenovo's offerings for photographers.
Lenovo for photographers
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jjj

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PC versus MAC- apples to apples
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2009, 03:10:35 pm »

Quote from: mdijb
THANKS for your reply.  When I compare machines with similar chips, like the 8 core chip on the entry level Mac pro to PC's with similar chips, and then add in the memory and  add in the hard drives i come up with pricees that are similar--am I correct or is there somethiing I am missing?  The OS is not a consideration--I have been a MAC user for a long time and my question relates to the hardware costs only.
Apple have the highest profit margins in the computer industry. Why? They package stock PC stuff in pretty packages they charge a lot for, they update very rarely, so you are using older [and much cheaper chips] if bought after initial release it. Secondly they give you very little choice and drammatically reduce their overheads as a result. When I bought my MacPro, I couldn't even buy it with a wireless mouse from Apple Store unless I paid extra for a second mouse or waited several days to have one shipped to store. The fact that such an expensive computer still has wired peripherals is somewhat pathetic anyway.

The case a MacPro comes in is however very nicely built, other than the 2 extra SATA ports on the motherboard are a complete pain to access for the 5th + 6th HDs and they have to sit unattached on the Optical drive bay floor - until I can get a 3rd party caddy for them.  I've bought high end PC Cases but none are as nice as the Mac case, though the lack of external conections is very poor compared to a PC case, as is the HD capacity.
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