Anyone here knows about the RISD?

[jjj]

Thanks a lot for your praise, I really appreciate that..
I love Tarantino, but unlike him I think I only have two ways to access filmmaking:
1. Do better commercial photography jobs and then have the clients to start to do some TVC for them.
2. Learn filmmaking in college and gain access to filmmaking directly.
I really think for filmmaking the technical part is not that crucial(as photography), but social network is. However I couldn't figure a way out other than the 2 points I listed to gain access to filmmaking..

A quote from someone else before I reply

In my opinion, art schools in general and photography schools in particular are essentially frauds.  And, don't get me started on the fraudulence of the college degree in general.

I was also wondering about going to college to study filmaking and visited the local college and chatted to the students about the course. They said the lecturers buggered off and they were left to their own devices. So I decided to skip forking out lots of money for little return and decided to get some experience working on set instead, usually as a stills photography and sometimes doing Art department stuff and continuity. A few years later I ended up working on a film with one of the students [she was a cameraman] and I knew more than she did, just from being on set and paying attention. Same applied to to others I met who had 'learnt' there - and it was a well known place to go.
So I got paid to learn and also learnt more than if I coughed up from my own pocket. Most people say that they learn more in a few weeks on set than several years of school.

Tarantino got to be a filmmker through writing, he sold the script for 'True Romance' which gave him funds to seed 'Resevoir Dogs'. And if you want to direct, you have to know how to tell a story, it's nothing to do with photography really, that's usually the DoP's job. Before I got film work I decided to try writing as that was free and spent time learning to write scripts - best thing I ever did, as only then did I really understand films and filmmaking. And if you cannot tell a story you will be a crap director when it comes to drama.

As for social networking - very, very important. You do it by working on films and you start by doing freebies and if you do a good job, you get asked back.

And if you want to make films, knowing how all the departments work is essential - you don't have to be an expert, just be aware of what the job involves. So many times filmmking gets delayed or disrupted as the director didn't understand how jobs got done or the time needed to fulfill his latest idea. Idiot producers who are clueless and have never really worked on set are also a complete pain.

You have to absolutely love films if you want to do this, as it's very unlikely to make you rich, the people with the money are often dreadful, the hours are truely terrible and you need infinite patience. Other than that it's fantastic - but not glamourous. At all.


Just like in photography where your portfolio gets you work and then word of mouth after that, your showreel, script, experience and then word of mouth gets you work in films. Who you know is vitally important and you only get to know people on set, unless you are very lucky.

[jjj]

Unlike still photography you need more than a pretty picture, you need an idea (script) and the story is what matters, next is sound, third is editing, fourth is actual shooting.

Notice how sound comes before image.
Sound in film making is incredibly important, if it's not right, the film will appear cheap and badly made. You can have poor quality visuals and good sound, no problems as it's seen as a stylistic decision. Lots of good films have been made on cheap DV but with expensive sound  [28 days later, Open Water, Tape, Blair Witch...] but beautiful visuals and poor sound is always awful. This is why dubbed movies always seem badly made.

[Kirk Gittings]

There's some sense and nonsense being written here.

People go to art school to study the art of the medium, not for an apprenticeship that leads automatically to a job.
if that is your goal, then look for a technical qualification, not a course like RISD.
or assisting someone is often a great introduction to that world.

if you love the art of photography as a way of communicating about the forces that move and shape our lives, then by all means take a few years out of your life to invest in broadening your understanding and outlook on this amazing medium. RISD, Bard, Columbia etc all have excellent courses.

It may seem like nonsense to some hard noses round here, but thank god that some people aspire to this noble pursuit, to study music, literature, and art. It enriches all our lives, and is an essential measure of civilization that we value it highly.

Couldn't agree more. I have my feet in both worlds, I have an MFA, make most of my living from commercial photography, show my art photography in museums and galleries and teach part time at two of the top photo universities. I am largely self taught in Architectural Photography. Though unnecessary to making a living doing commercial photography, I greatly value the time I spent studying art at a university and do not consider it a waste at all. It gave me the time and environment to really figure out my personal aesthetic without the market pressure and to understand the history of my chosen genre. Now understand I got a full ride+ to go to graduate school. It really cost me only time but not money. If I had had to go in debt to get an MFA, I'm not sure I would have done it.

[haefnerphoto]

Dustblue, A degree (which you might already have) isn't mandatory and after reviewing your website I think you have a good handle on many aspects of still photography.  The education you would receive can't hurt, unfortunately, it's quite costly.  If I were going to attend a photography or film school I'd pick Art Center in LA (actually, Pasedena).  The education would be industry specific and it's located in an area that is among the busiest for both advertising and film.  I had an intern last year that is attending the School for Visual Arts and my advice to her was to spend the first two years at a state university to accomplish the mandatory general requirements that all accredited colleges offer then transfer the last two years for the photography.  That school is somewhere around 45,000.00/year, quite honestly spending 180,000.00 to become a photographer with a degree sounds ridiculous to me.  I'm not sure what price point makes sense but you better be pretty focused when you graduate.  I graduated from RIT, as did others commenting in this thread, and I recommend it highly too, but today living in and then working in, whether it's as an assistant or photographer, LA's got Rochester beat by a mile (unless you really like snow!).  Southern California has a lot to offer a photographer or filmmaker.  Good luck, Jim

[dustblue]

Thank you guys! I really learned a lot from you. The complexity of filmmaking and the requiring of social-networks are exactly what frightened me at the beginning, and that's why I didn't touch it. I think I'd better first make myself a good commercial photographer, and then consider film.
I do have a degree in Physics. I spend 5 years of life in the best university in China (Peking Univ.), but most things I learned (including my major physics) is just by myself, from reading books. so I'm really not that interested in going back to college again, and I am much more sure about it now, after this great thread. This potentially saves me a lot of time and money.
As for the sound in films, it is a reason why I love films. I think film is combination of Music, Photography, Literature and Drama. I absolutely agree with that good sound make good movies. Thomas Newman for American Beauty, Beethoven's sonata in the long take of the Elephant, oh and pink floyd's the wall by allen parker! those are just fascinating...

[haefnerphoto]

Dustblue, I think a degree in physics is a great background for a professional photographer!  As a matter of fact, I've told many clients when they want to know how something is done "It's all physics".  Jim

[witz]

If you went there, it seems you would be able to spell their name properly.  I too would not trade my undergrad at Brooks for anything.

ha.... well.... my iphone likes to change words on me....

[dustblue]

Dustblue, I think a degree in physics is a great background for a professional photographer!  As a matter of fact, I've told many clients when they want to know how something is done "It's all physics".  Jim

Jim, I absolutely agree with you:) I still love physics.
Dustblue

[Peter McLennan]

dustblue, I was an IATSE Director of Photography for over 30 years, worked as an independent producer/director/cameraman for 10 years and I taught at a major film school for 5 years.



Some things I believe:  

          A day on a professionally-run set is worth a month in a classroom.

          Working for a client is a thousand times more difficult than working for yourself.

          Sound is more important than picture.

          Investing in cameras and editing software is far more cost-effective than any film/photogaphy school - especially for you, since you've proven that you can learn independently.

          Never have the barriers to entry been lower, the competition keener or the opportunities greater.

          Making a film is the best set of toy trains a boy ever had.  Actually, Orson Wells said that : )  



If those are all your photographs (on your website)  I believe you would be wasting both time and money at a photography school.   Get a low-paying, life-destroying job as an assistant to a top flight photographer and GO!  

[condit79]

Most people are pretty on the money here.  Go to risd if you want to teach, or get a network of people to use to get your work shown in galleries.  It will basically teach you to think about art more than commerce and could push you in new directions.  I would do it if you want to change directions in your career.  Sure, the art world is very strange and very exclusive (its meant to be that way to draw even more money for the pieces) but can be rewarding.  I'm preparing my personal portfolio to get a masters degree because I actually want to teach pretty badly.  Honestly always having that as an outlet for the information you've gained over the years can be pretty rewarding.  I find myself surrounding myself constantly with young artists and hashing through what each of us knows/understands anyways, so that makes sense for me.  

I wouldn't say you'll learn anything more technically, but you'll be pushed to think in a different way for sure and probably be challenged to apply what you know about physics to some art to say something very personal.  That could be an interesting adventure. But as others are saying, look for a program that will give you some sort of scholarship honestly.  I'd never get a master's degree I had to pay full price for.  I have friends getting paid to get their master's in photography, and they're not famous or anything like that, just solid artists.  If you do apply to "art" programs vs. commercial tech programs realize what the application process entails, what the school produces, look at who teaches where, what their work is like...all these things.  It'll help you prepare and figure out who can help you move forward in life and what will be a waste of your time.   This forum is an interesting place to ask these types of questions, but you're getting a full range of answers for sure.  Everything from contemporary art is crap, to you don't need it, to it could be helpful.  Decide WHY you want to go to school, what you expect to glean from the experience and I think you'll have all the answers you need.

[dustblue]

Thank you Peter! I really appreciate your advices.
Yes those on the website are all my works. Recently I (finally..) have some high fashion catalogs to do for two domestic clients, hopefully I can make some good fashion photos (which I don't have right now).  And after I had some stable income to fond my interests in films, I'm sure I'll do that.
Regards,
Dustblue

dustblue, I was an IATSE Director of Photography for over 30 years, worked as an independent producer/director/cameraman for 10 years and I taught at a major film school for 5 years.



Some things I believe:  

          A day on a professionally-run set is worth a month in a classroom.

          Working for a client is a thousand times more difficult than working for yourself.

          Sound is more important than picture.

          Investing in cameras and editing software is far more cost-effective than any film/photogaphy school - especially for you, since you've proven that you can learn independently.

          Never have the barriers to entry been lower, the competition keener or the opportunities greater.

          Making a film is the best set of toy trains a boy ever had.  Actually, Orson Wells said that : )  



If those are all your photographs (on your website)  I believe you would be wasting both time and money at a photography school.   Get a low-paying, life-destroying job as an assistant to a top flight photographer and GO!  

[jjj]

A day on a professionally-run set is worth a month in a classroom.

          Working for a client is a thousand times more difficult than working for yourself.

          Sound is more important than picture.

          Investing in cameras and editing software is far more cost-effective than any film/photogaphy school - especially for you, since you've proven that you can learn independently.

That's the best advice you'll get.

[terence_patrick]

If you're not already on your way to actively marketing to gain new clients and feel you'd like to round out your knowledge of photography, I say there's nothing wrong with going for an MFA, so long as you can afford it. If RISD has a specific commercial photography path (which I believe Art Center does), it might prove to be good training in doing consistent work on a timely basis while getting feedback from peers and instructors. That alone is worth some of the cost, because it can be pretty tough floundering through the first few years of being an independent professional where art buyers and photo editors will barely give you enough time to answer an email let alone review your work and give you honest feedback during the experimental years.