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Author Topic: 4x5 vs DSLR stitch: how many megapixels needed?  (Read 28702 times)

Plekto

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4x5 vs DSLR stitch: how many megapixels needed?
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2009, 03:17:53 pm »

Quote from: KevinA
I tend to roll my eyes when a photography debate turns to a battle of mathematical formula interpretation. I do often relate to a couple of personal experiances, one I was thumbing through various books (mostly landscape) in a book shop, nothing really grabbed my attention, they all had that out for a walk look and grabbed a few shots at twilight feel. Then I picked up a book and even though it was less than A4 in size it screamed LF and the LF thinking had carried on to the repro and layout, you know the get it right mentality.

Yes, skill does have a lot to do with it.  LF and MF tends to be a bit more old-school compose the shot feel to it.  And I like it myself, to be honest.  I think it's really a matter of having one lens and one camera and pretty much having to work with it as-is.   I've been known to wait minutes to get the right shot.  A lot of stuff in books now does look like they took 5 seconds to shoot it.

As I said, the difference seems to be between professional printing and home printing.  In a high quality book where they are using a lithograph/4 color process at 1400-2400dpi, yes, you'll see 4 X 5 showing more detail.   And if you do that sort of work, by all means go as large as you feel comfortable with.  Film and larger formats shine here, to be honest.  But a lot of that has to do with the 2 ft or less viewing distance as well.(arm's length)

But for the rest of us, ink jets and dye sub printers now lag greatly behind the level of detail in the typical camera.  They have grown at an astonishing rate and we're still using decade old technology to print it out.  So it's not surprising that on a home printer, the lines get blurry and it all starts to look the same unless you print stupidly large prints.  ~24X36 is typical painting on the wall size, after all...  

Note - I can see the difference between an ink jet and a lithograph at 5-10ft, but it's an overall impression and not actual detail difference.  I think the reflectivity and smoothness isn't the same on an ink jet, though it is getting closer.  I suspect that there is a great difference between the inks that the manufacturers aren't quite coming clean with us about.  In any case, it's certainly a case of the cameras being good enough - the printing is now lagging behind.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 03:18:58 pm by Plekto »
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button

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4x5 vs DSLR stitch: how many megapixels needed?
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2009, 04:24:55 pm »

Quote from: Plekto
I've been known to wait minutes to get the right shot.

I wish I were good enough to have to wait just a few minutes.  I usually have to wait longer than that.  
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Misirlou

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4x5 vs DSLR stitch: how many megapixels needed?
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2009, 05:25:27 pm »

Quote from: button
I wish I were good enough to have to wait just a few minutes.  I usually have to wait longer than that.  

Jeez. I've been known to get up hours before sunset, hike to a remote site, spend 15 minutes setting up the tripod and camera for a 4X5 shot, wait another half hour for the light to be just right, and only expose maybe 3 sheets. Then find out I forgeot to pull the dark slide on one of them. And eventually prefering a DSLR shot that I made while waiting for the 4X5 ones.
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Plekto

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4x5 vs DSLR stitch: how many megapixels needed?
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2009, 07:48:30 pm »

Yes... I have also waited stupidly long times...  But you get my point.    

Too much of what I now see passing as "art" is basically some guy going click happy all over the place and selecting the one or two that look good.
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free1000

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4x5 vs DSLR stitch: how many megapixels needed?
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2009, 02:38:50 am »

Quote from: Plekto
In any case, it's certainly a case of the cameras being good enough - the printing is now lagging behind.

I agree with your general point, but you might be impressed by some well made prints on Harman FB Al paper. The results are more detailed than I've seen on other papers.  I made the first print ever that looked LF the other day.

A3+ size, Epson 3800 printer, Harman FB Al, printed using guidelines from Eric Chan

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/index.html

My image wasn't particularly great, but it was a 65 Megapixel stitch made with an Aptus of a local landscape (fairly bland).

However the image had elements which lent themselves to that LF look. Lots of microstructure vis. tree branches.  Some small black cows that in the distance had a high contrast and distinct shape.

Following this I have made a number of test shots and prints at the same resolution and printed identically, but they don't all have the same 'Mojo' showing that there is an important relationship between scale, subject matter and printing.

Still, this is the first time I've made an inkjet print at that size which has the mojo and I mainly attribute this to the paper being able to hold much more detail because of its extremely smooth glossy texture.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 02:40:06 am by free1000 »
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MarkL

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4x5 vs DSLR stitch: how many megapixels needed?
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2009, 08:17:39 am »

I have recently been using a D700 and stitching rather than using 6x7 for landscapes and after seeing the results have new respect for scanned 6x7. I also recently saw some very impressive 30x40" prints from 6x7 at an Annie Leibovitz exhibition.

I want to do a direct comparison at some point but based on what I've seen it takes maybe 6 12MP D700 frames as a rough guess to get close to imacon scanned 6x7. Stitching is pretty wasteful, you need a 40% overlap in both directions and often a decent amount of cropping after the software has finished warping and aligning the frames.

The real advantage to stitching is dof blending. I shoot 6x7 with an ebony rsw45 and even with lens tilt things can get difficult at times.

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