Help Needed please from CS3 Retouching Guru

[Josh-H]

I have this photograph taken the other day that needs some retouching - unfortunately I did not notice 'mums arm' on the left hand side holding up baby when I shot it - now I need to remove it to finish the shot for presentation.

Would really appreciate if anyone can reccomend a method or point me in the right direction for the bet way to clean this up.
I cant use stacks in CS3 as I dont have another shot without the arm in it.

I want to apply the correction to the 16 Bit TIff file I have created - so need instruction on how to actually do it.

I have LR 2.2 and CS3 Extended.

Original image was shot with a 1DSMK3 w/ 50mm F1.2L @ F6.3 1/160 sec.[attachment=10572:_74X4023_Edit2008.jpg]

Thanks greatly.

[Wolfman]

I have this photograph taken the other day that needs some retouching - unfortunately I did not notice 'mums arm' on the left hand side holding up baby when I shot it - now I need to remove it to finish the shot for presentation.

Would really appreciate if anyone can reccomend a method or point me in the right direction for the bet way to clean this up.
I cant use stacks in CS3 as I dont have another shot without the arm in it.

I want to apply the correction to the 16 Bit TIff file I have created - so need instruction on how to actually do it.

I have LR 2.2 and CS3 Extended.

Original image was shot with a 1DSMK3 w/ 50mm F1.2L @ F6.3 1/160 sec.[attachment=10572:_74X4023_Edit2008.jpg]

Thanks greatly.

Some careful cloning.

[Josh-H]

Some careful cloning.

Thanks - thats a pretty good effort, better than my cloning effort.

But I really want something thats moer 'perfect' - I can still clearly see haloing around her arm etc..

Is there an ideal technique for dealing with this kind of image removal?

[Wolfman]

Thanks - thats a pretty good effort, better than my cloning effort.

But I really want something thats moer 'perfect' - I can still clearly see haloing around her arm etc..

Is there an ideal technique for dealing with this kind of image removal?

I did that fairly quick. I don't see any haloing on my monitor. Do you mean haloing next to the arm on the background or the edge line of the arm itself?

[JonasYip]

Thanks - thats a pretty good effort, better than my cloning effort.

But I really want something thats moer 'perfect' - I can still clearly see haloing around her arm etc..

Is there an ideal technique for dealing with this kind of image removal?

Well, if you're looking at it knowing what was there, you'll probably always see it as imperfect. Also, perhaps the arm is a little darker that you'd expect once the mom is removed. Could try lightening the edge shadow a bit.

I've attached my quick attempt, where I've ( a ) copied and flipped the wall from the other side so that the lines in the wall are consistent and ( b ) used the edge of the baby's other arm flipped and distorted to replace the original arm, hopefully avoiding the edge cloning messiness...

j

[Josh-H]

Well, if you're looking at it knowing what was there, you'll probably always see it as imperfect. Also, perhaps the arm is a little darker that you'd expect once the mom is removed. Could try lightening the edge shadow a bit.

I've attached my quick attempt, where I've ( a ) copied and flipped the wall from the other side so that the lines in the wall are consistent and ( b ) used the edge of the baby's other arm flipped and distorted to replace the original arm, hopefully avoiding the edge cloning messiness...

j

Very nice!

Would you mind giving me a step by step? [please   ]

[Josh-H]

I did that fairly quick. I don't see any haloing on my monitor. Do you mean haloing next to the arm on the background or the edge line of the arm itself?

Sorry Haloing was the wrong choice of words - It actually looks very good - it just isnt quite natural looking - but that may just be because I know what was there before hand.

I will have another go with the cloning tool and see how I go.

[JonasYip]

Very nice!

Would you mind giving me a step by step? [please   ]

Well, that was pretty much the two steps. But in more detail (if I recall correctly):

(1) select a chunk of the wall on the right, copy and paste (ends up in a new layer)
(2) flip the chunk horizontally and align the lines in the wall (may need to rotate a little)

The chunk of wall is now blocking parts of the side wall and the baby (and the mom!) so

(3) create a layer mask for that layer and paint away parts of the chunk to bring back the baby and the wall.

Theoretically that's all you need to do. However, as you've seen the result looks a little un-natural... which I believe is due to the darkness of the arm, probably caused by the mom being there blocking light from the side and reflected from the back wall. So you could:

( 4a ) just lighten up those shadows until it looks better, which would probably work fine

or what I did, which was copy the edge of the other arm to get a clean arm/wall edge:

( 4b ) copy a chunk of the baby's other arm, copy/paste
( 5 ) flip horizontally, select all (of the chunk of arm), go "transform -> distort" and adjust the edge of arm from the sleeve to the wrist to match the other arm.
( 6 ) I think I had to adjust the color of the chunk of arm to match the skin (added a pinch of red, took out a pinch of blue).
( 7 ) layer mask, paint to mask and blend in to the other arm. The advantage here is that that edge already has wall behind it instead of striped-shirted mom so the masking can be much sloppier.

Sounds more complicated that it seemed when I was doing it, perhaps. But no cloning, which could cause inconsistent texture in that whole area. One potential issue, however, is that step (5) is a pretty significant distort, which may be a problem in your hi-res/large-print original. Could be some work to get the textures right...

I can send you the photoshop file if you want to see what I did with the layers...

j

[jerryrock]

Don't forget mom's fingers under baby's left armpit.

[mistybreeze]

That baby is adorable and I like the setting. You can fix this photo with Photoshop and do a decent job but it won't be easy to make it perfect. It may never be perfect and it will require a lot of time, patience, and trial-and-error along the path. I see too many obstacles.

The next time, if one comes along, always watch out for the person who is supporting the child. The mother's presence is interfering too much in this image (ie: her clothing choice, her position in relation to the light and the light reflecting onto the baby, and the manner in which she is holding the child and mangling the child's clothes. Mangled clothing is one of the hardest things to fix in Photoshop, especially if there isn't another image in the series that can provide the necessary "correct" pixels.

Good luck.

[Josh-H]

That baby is adorable and I like the setting. You can fix this photo with Photoshop and do a decent job but it won't be easy to make it perfect. It may never be perfect and it will require a lot of time, patience, and trial-and-error along the path. I see too many obstacles.

The next time, if one comes along, always watch out for the person who is supporting the child. The mother's presence is interfering too much in this image (ie: her clothing choice, her position in relation to the light and the light reflecting onto the baby, and the manner in which she is holding the child and mangling the child's clothes. Mangled clothing is one of the hardest things to fix in Photoshop, especially if there isn't another image in the series that can provide the necessary "correct" pixels.

Good luck.

Thanks - I photograph children as part of my job; so I am used to looking out for this sort of thing - unfortunately, this time I just missed it and have left myself a very difficult photoshop clean up as a result.

I have spent several hours this morning trying to clean up that arm [the fingers dont bother me as I really dont think they detract as they are barely visible] and I just cant get it to look natural. Ive tried cloning, masking, copying sections and using a mask and all of them [its probably my technique] look like a fix.

I think this time I need to outsource it to a professional image retoucher. Can anyone reccomend one? Or, would anyone be interested in having a go at the original TIFF file for me?

Thanks all for the assistance

[mistybreeze]

Thanks - I photograph children as part of my job; so I am used to looking out for this sort of thing - unfortunately, this time I just missed it and have left myself a very difficult photoshop clean up as a result.

We've all done the same thing with subjects familiar to us. I wasn't trying to instruct but rather reinforce.

I have spent several hours this morning trying to clean up that arm...and I just cant get it to look natural. Ive tried cloning, masking, copying sections and using a mask and all of them [its probably my technique] look like a fix.

To get the arms to appear as though both were captured in the same light without shadow interference from an accidental object takes strong skill and a good amount of experience. The nuances in the baby's skin are quite delicate. Getting the edge of the "fixed" arm to juxtapose stone that isn't in the photo (because the mother's arm is blocking it) is another challenge that requires experience. A professional retoucher will look at this image and see a clock ticking in his/her head.

the fingers dont bother me as I really dont think they detract as they are barely visible

Every viewer sees different things. If I fixed the baby's right arm and left the mother's fingers under the baby's left arm, I could never look at the photo again. (Unless the fix was perfect.)

I think this time I need to outsource it to a professional image retoucher. Can anyone reccomend one? Or, would anyone be interested in having a go at the original TIFF file for me?

Cutting a deal with someone on the board might be the most cost-effective but I would pay after I see the work finished. The retoucher I would approach for such a challenge freelances for Steven Meisel and Annie Leibovitz. The cost would be prohibitive.

NobleDesktop dot com in NYC has a "Job Board." The board offers a lengthy list of retouching freelancers. Several instructors at Noble are commercial freelance retouchers who work on ads for major corporations. You could write them with your image and see what they have to say and who they might recommend. They have an international clientele. I'm sure they'd be very helpful.

Good luck.

[Josh-H]

Just wanted to close off this thread as I have had the image professionally retouched and am extremely happy with the results, as is my client.
A big thank you to the individual who provided their excellent services.