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Author Topic: Hasselblad and digital backs  (Read 7628 times)

The Vulcan

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Hasselblad and digital backs
« on: December 21, 2008, 02:27:01 am »

Forgive me if this is old hat to you guys but it’s all new and mystifying to me.

I’m just a hobbyist photographer and have a Hasselblad 500CM and a 500 EL/M. I'm considering a digital back to fit on either/both of them as here in Thailand shooting and developing film is difficult. As a retired pensioner finances dictate something around 12-16 megapixel and probably Phase One. I’m also looking at the Kodak DCS backs, both currently available on Ebay.

But this is where I get lost in this modern digital age!

Are these earlier backs tethered only or can they be used in the field?

Is it simply a case of bolting them on the camera, coupled with the appropriate sync cables, and off you go?

Where are the images stored?

How are the images retrieved?

What about synch cables for various lenses viz old style Compur and later CF. I have 50, 80 and 100 Compur’s and a 60 CF - is a dedicated cable needed for each?

What problems will I experience as a newbie to this stuff?

In other words - how does it all work?

A bewildered old man would appreciate your guidance


Thanks
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shutay

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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2008, 05:18:21 am »

Sawasdee Kup. I'll have a go at answering your questions.

Quote from: The Vulcan
Forgive me if this is old hat to you guys but it’s all new and mystifying to me.

I’m just a hobbyist photographer and have a Hasselblad 500CM and a 500 EL/M. I'm considering a digital back to fit on either/both of them as here in Thailand shooting and developing film is difficult. As a retired pensioner finances dictate something around 12-16 megapixel and probably Phase One. I’m also looking at the Kodak DCS backs, both currently available on Ebay.

But this is where I get lost in this modern digital age!

Are these earlier backs tethered only or can they be used in the field?

Most people are currently advising against getting the Kodak DCS backs since you can no longer get support for them, eventho they are cheap, and they have a very limited ISO range.

Some digital backs are tethered only and some can be used "self-contained" in the field, and yet others can be used in the field, but they may be 2 box solutions - e.g., a digital back and an external hard disk. It depends on the model. Because there are so many different brands and models out there, I'll stick to PhaseOne since you mentioned you are like to go that way. All PhaseOne Pxx designated backs are self-contained units that require the insertion of a battery and a CompactFlash memory card for storage. You have your camera and the the digital back, and sync cable where appropriate and off you go, assuming your battery is charged. So this means, the P20, P20+, P21, P21+, P30, P30+, P25, P25+, P45, P45+, P65+ all are self-contained, and can be used tethered if you wish, or self-contained in the field.

Quote
Is it simply a case of bolting them on the camera, coupled with the appropriate sync cables, and off you go?
Essentially, they are designed replace the 120 rollfilm magazine. Remove the rollfilm magazine and you attach the digital back in the same way you would a film magazine. Then if you need a sync cable, attach that.

Quote
Where are the images stored?
As mentioned, there are different kinds of backs, but the PhaseOne Pxx model backs mentioned above  store all the images as RAW files on a CompactFlash memory card. Like other digital cameras, the card is inserted into a slot designed for it that is covered by a door that has to be popped open to access it.

In the case of the earlier Imacon branded Ixpress digital backs and later the Hasselblad branded Ixpress backs, they stored their images on an external hard disk pack that you had to either sling over our shoulder or clip to your belt (I hope your belt is good at keeping your trousers up!). Other older backs like the Leaf Valeo backs also did use an external hard disk pack.

Quote
How are the images retrieved?
Often, you have 2 choices - you can remove the memory card from the back, insert it into USB CompactFlash memory card reader connected to your computer and import the files using the appropriate software, which would have been provided with the digital back. Otherwise, you can also connect the back to the computer with a Firewire cable, very much in the same way as you would to do tethered shooting if you so wished. Generally, the software provided detects the back when connected and Apple Macs and some PCs, the computer can also power the back, so that no battery is required. You can then use the provided software to copy the images from the back to the computer's hard disk and start editing.

Quote
What about synch cables for various lenses viz old style Compur and later CF. I have 50, 80 and 100 Compur’s and a 60 CF - is a dedicated cable needed for each?
As far as I know, they all use the same sync cable, since the sync cable connects to the X-flash sync PC socket on your lens. That raises a question - how do you connect your flash up to the whole setup? Well, with your lens' X-flash sync socket occupied by the sync cable for the digital back, you must connect your flash up to your digital back via the additional PC socket provided on the back for this purpose.

Quote
What problems will I experience as a newbie to this stuff?
You'll have to learn RAW image file workflow, learn the software, learn PhotoShop, and learn how to do whatever digital darkroom techniques your photographic vision requires. The files are also big, so you may have to upgrade your hard disk size and computer RAM size as well, if not the whole computer, in some cases...

Quote
In other words - how does it all work?

A bewildered old man would appreciate your guidance
I hope what I've written above helps and works for you as a starting point.

Kop-kun-kup.
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The Vulcan

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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2008, 05:25:00 am »

"shutay" that's been extremely helpful. Thank you so much.

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shutay

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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2008, 06:18:48 am »

If you're serious about getting a PhaseOne back, you can start at the Support web page on the Phase One website and download the P-series reference manual PDF document and start reading.
http://www.phaseone.com/Global/documentati...ntation_DB.aspx

For example, on page 20, there is a shot of where the CompactFlash card gets inserted into the back and in fact, in the shot, it is clearly mounted on a Hasselblad V-series body, I can't tell which one, but it is a V-body.

Pages 60 - 68 cover exclusively the use of P-series Phase One backs on Hasselblad V-series bodies.

Another way is to hop on down to your nearest Hasselblad (Shriro Thailand) or Phase One dealer with your camera and ask them to show you how it works. My experience is that they should always pleased to oblige.

Disclaimer - there are no evil marketing/sales plans contained herein. I have nothing to do with Phase One whatsoever, I am not even a customer as I myself own and use a Hasselblad Ixpress back.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 06:23:21 am by shutay »
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Morgan_Moore

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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2008, 06:26:17 am »

"Bolt on to the camera"

You have a hassy 'V' series I assume

You need to get a back that is 'V' mount

not 'H' mount (H1), M Mount (Mamiya) or C mount (Contaxt)

Sinar and (old now discontinued) Eyelike backs have plate between the camera and the back so with the appropriate plate those cameras will fit and camera system

------

Do you know that 16MP digital backs have a chip size (recording area) of 36mm X 36 mm which is a lot smaller than the 6cm square recorded on film on a Blad ?

This will lose you your wide angle and (debatably) increase your depth of field because you will have to back off from your subject to fit it into the cropped frame, it may also make focus more critical (harder to do) because you a looking at a smaller area of the ground glass

Ability to focus with any device that has a high quality for a small size is hard which is why auto focus seems more needed nowadays

Given the cropped view, difficulty to focus manually and age of those backs you may be better off moving to the Canon system with a 5Dii, and 20mm prime and 50 1.8 lenses - I suggest those lenses because I beleive they offer supreme value - bringing the total cost to the same as a used digiback -  I work as a full time pro and could live with just those lenses 90% of the time - many far greater photographers than myself get by just with a 35F2

of course sticking with the Hassy system is worth considerieng if you intend to move to a larger 'chip size' (more expensive back) some time in the future - should this be the case you should be aware that some digibacks MAY have great value as trade in upgrades to more modern backs - It is worth researching trade in options before you buy a back - I sold my first back to someone who used it as a trade in chip - I therefore was able to realise a far higher value than its value as a photographic tool

SMM
« Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 06:33:41 am by Morgan_Moore »
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

The Vulcan

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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2008, 06:57:12 am »

Thank you "Morgan" - I hadn't realised the 36mm x36mm "problem". Maybe the 5D11 is the way to go as I'm currently using a 5Dmk1.

To you both, my sincere appreciation.
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Morgan_Moore

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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2008, 07:55:00 am »

Quote from: The Vulcan
Thank you "Morgan" - I hadn't realised the 36mm x36mm "problem". Maybe the 5D11 is the way to go as I'm currently using a 5Dmk1.

To you both, my sincere appreciation.

I would say so unless you shooting style is very considered - in the right situations I am ocnvinced that DBacks that dont have  an AA filter are very sharp - Im still suprised by the files off my old ProBack (sold three years ago)

but then for landscapes or still lives there are good options stitching with DSLRs

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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

shutay

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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2008, 09:49:53 am »

Quote from: Morgan_Moore
I would say so unless you shooting style is very considered - in the right situations I am convinced that DBacks that dont have  an AA filter are very sharp - Im still suprised by the files off my old ProBack (sold three years ago)

but then for landscapes or still lives there are good options stitching with DSLRs
As Sam says, my own opinion about 16mp square sensor vs Canon 5D Mk I or MkII even is not as clear cut to answer as people might imagine. Either Canon will give you a fast working, versatile, highly capable camera. But the question of image resolution when a shot is carefully executed is a different matter altogether in my opinion, which is why I am shooting with a digital back. The 16mp Hasselblad Ixpress V96C backs for example, seem to go for about US$4,200, which is on it's own enough to buy a new 5D MkII and some good lenses. Which you should go for... is not easy for anyone to advise you.

Furthermore, I can mount my digital back on a variety of cameras. All these considerations were important to me, but for example the 1.5x crop factor of the 16mp backs (sorry, forgot to mention that) does mean that if you're a wide angle or ultra-wide fiend, it possibly isn't for you.
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clawery

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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2008, 11:41:11 am »

Please take a look at this link to Phase One's web site.  It will show you the P20 attached to several different medium format cameras.  It also give you specs and other detailed info that may guide you on your quest for a medium format back.  Please feel free to send me an e-mail if you like.  I would be glad to field your questions.

http://www.phaseone.com/Content/p1digitalb...ies/P%2020.aspx

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The Vulcan

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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2008, 09:56:01 pm »

Once again my thanks to you all for being so helpful. I'm certainly a lot wiser as a result of your efforts. And I'm very glad I'm a member of this forum.

Quite a daunting matter for us senior citizens believe me!

I'm of the opinion that a (used) P20 is the route to take and am persuing this option.

I can foresee a lot more posts coming from myself for help!

Happy Festive season to you all and thanks again.



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vandevanterSH

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« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2008, 10:15:31 pm »

Another option that would allow you to continue to use the 'blads is to shoot B&W, develop it yourself and the buy a good flat bed scanner, such as an Epson 750.  I would think that in a few years good used MF backs will become available for much more reasonable prices.  The Kodak backs are no longer supported, which would  be a deal "killer" for me.

Steve
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