P30 Longest usable exposure

[Snook]

Sorry, Did a search but cannot find any information other than on the phase one site that just says several minutes??

Can anybody tell me what the longest exposure that an be done with the P30.. the NON plus one.

Did a search here and on google and cannot find anything.. Just about the P30+

Thanks for any information. I was doing some 30 second exposure the other night and forgot my release cable in order to do longer exposures.
Before I go out for another expedition WITH my cable release can anybody let me know what the longest exposure is possible with the P30.
Thank you.
PS. Also if it is not sufficient, would my 1DsMII be better at longer exposures... I am looking to do about 5 - 10 minute exposure more or less...

Thank you

Snook

[Doug Peterson]

Sorry, Did a search but cannot find any information other than on the phase one site that just says several minutes??

Can anybody tell me what the longest exposure that an be done with the P30.. the NON plus one.

Did a search here and on google and cannot find anything.. Just about the P30+

Thanks for any information. I was doing some 30 second exposure the other night and forgot my release cable in order to do longer exposures.
Before I go out for another expedition WITH my cable release can anybody let me know what the longest exposure is possible with the P30.
Thank you.
PS. Also if it is not sufficient, would my 1DsMII be better at longer exposures... I am looking to do about 5 - 10 minute exposure more or less...

Thank you

Snook

I know for sure the Mark III has a longer maximum long exposure than the P30 non plus.  I don't have long exposure experience with the Mark II.

The official technical guide says that the P30 can go to "several minutes". As with any digital camera system the ambient temperature is a major factor.

Of course one of the major features of the P+ series is that they can expose cleanly for an hour at 63F/17C (or longer at lower temperatures, e.g. 3 hours at 32F/0C) [Phase One Long Exposure Chart]. So beg/borrow/steal/upgrade-to a P30+ if at all possible. There is no camera system I'm aware of which will outperform a P+ digital back for long exposures (please jump in if you know differently). And unlike film there is no reciprocity failure.

Do be aware that the digital back will need to take two exposures; one with the shutter open for the actual image, and a second equal exposure with the shutter closed to measure sensor noise and hotspots. The back will count up on the rear LCD to tell you how long it has been exposed for and then count down to let you know the time remaining on the 2nd exposure. This 2-exposure method, along with suburb heat sinking and signal processing are why the P+ series can expose for so long while maintaining detail and color accuracy with only minimal noise.

Doug Peterson,  Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer  |  Personal Portfolio

edit: I know reiterating "several minutes" is not all that useful. But we haven't done that much non-plus long exposure testing because the plus series is just so much better at it that we recommend any customer that needs or wants long exposure to buy a plus back. Obviously this is not your main-stay work, so again, sorry I couldn't be more useful.

[Snook]

I know for sure the Mark III has a longer maximum long exposure than the P30 non plus.  I don't have long exposure experience with the Mark II.

The official technical guide says that the P30 can go to "several minutes". As with any digital camera system the ambient temperature is a major factor.

Of course one of the major features of the P+ series is that they can expose cleanly for an hour at 63F/17C (or longer at lower temperatures, e.g. 3 hours at 32F/0C) [Phase One Long Exposure Chart]. So beg/borrow/steal/upgrade-to a P30+ if at all possible. There is no camera system I'm aware of which will outperform a P+ digital back for long exposures (please jump in if you know differently). And unlike film there is no reciprocity failure.

Do be aware that the digital back will need to take two exposures; one with the shutter open for the actual image, and a second equal exposure with the shutter closed to measure sensor noise and hotspots. The back will count up on the rear LCD to tell you how long it has been exposed for and then count down to let you know the time remaining on the 2nd exposure. This 2-exposure method, along with suburb heat sinking and signal processing are why the P+ series can expose for so long while maintaining detail and color accuracy with only minimal noise.

Doug Peterson,  Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer  |  Personal Portfolio

edit: I know reiterating "several minutes" is not all that useful. But we haven't done that much non-plus long exposure testing because the plus series is just so much better at it that we recommend any customer that needs or wants long exposure to buy a plus back. Obviously this is not your main-stay work, so again, sorry I couldn't be more useful.

Thank you Doug..
I saw that on their site that is said several minutes?? But thought what kind of answer was that..
Was hoping maybe someone that has done some longer exposures with the P30.
Like I said do not want hours exposures just 5-10 minutes max I would think.

Unfortunately I do not have access to a P30+ and would not even think about upgrading at this moment. And I want to start a series I photographic sessions that I think will go around 5-10 minutes.

Yeh I noticed that when I do an exposure, That the P30 makes an equal black frame exposure..
My little Leica does the same thing.

Thanks but hoping some one who has one it will write something.

I remember that was a Big factor for some in some post a while back, But never remember anything being said about the P series and Phase site says several minutes?
You want to take a guess how many minutes..
This what I turn up on several from Thes..:


Several- plurality, a number, a certain number, a few, multitude, majority, a great many, multitude;

Snook
Here is an example of 30 seconds at iso 200.. tripoded etc..
and the temperature was around 20*C  cool breeze.
The images are not that sharp I think and for was missing a couple of stops on this image:
[attachment=10228:CF038170H_.jpg]



Can you move the camera for the dark frame or do you have to keep it in the same spot for the dark frame frame?
Thanks!

[hauxon]

Erick you will start to get streaks from the stars with longer exposures.  For 30+ min exposures that may cause cool effect (cricles) but for shorter exposures (e.g. 5-10 minutes) may just look ugly.  Few minute exposures with moving clouds could however look great.

I would recommend you to rather seek fast glass for your 1DsII.  In my experience with night images it is best to over-expose and lower the exposure later in the RAW conversion.  Using my 1DsII and 5D cameras I can almost get very little noise.  You can probably use your P30 during moonshine without super fast glass anf cranking the ISO too high.

Best, Hrannar

[Doug Peterson]

If the goal is star trails in an area in which the ambient light vs star-brightness prohibits natural star trails of an aesthetic length then you could also do what I did in my senior thesis and stack multiple shorter exposures with a "lighten" filter in PS to accomplish longer star trails than could be captured in-camera due to the noise floor created by the ambient light.

Doug Peterson,  Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer  |  Personal Portfolio

[Doug Peterson]

Can you move the camera for the dark frame or do you have to keep it in the same spot for the dark frame frame?
Thanks!

The shutter is closed so you can move the camera as you like. However as much as possible keep the ambient temperature the same (i.e. don't go inside), and be very careful not to accidentally turn off the back, remove a battery etc (easy to do if you forget it is still exposing).

Doug Peterson,  Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer  |  Personal Portfolio

[hauxon]

The shutter is closed so you can move the camera as you like. However as much as possible keep the ambient temperature the same (i.e. don't go inside), and be very careful not to accidentally turn off the back, remove a battery etc (easy to do if you forget it is still exposing).

Doug Peterson,  Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer  |  Personal Portfolio

Shooting a black frame will cause the camera to be locked up for equal amount of time making shooting several minute exposures very far between.  That could make gaps in the startrails if screening multiple exposures together.  The best solution would be shooting a single long exposure frame with the lens cover on at the end of the shooting session (while walking back to the car) and use it for reference for noise removal during post-processing for all the shots.

[Colorwave]

I'm curious what defines "several minutes" as an exposure limitation with the non-plus back?  Is it an image quality issue, or is there an electronic or mechanical issue that somehow prevents longer exposures?.  I have mine on a Contax, so I have other issues with long exposures, but am curious about what leads to the "several minute" limit for the P30.

[Snook]

I'm curious what defines "several minutes" as an exposure limitation with the non-plus back?  Is it an image quality issue, or is there an electronic or mechanical issue that somehow prevents longer exposures?.  I have mine on a Contax, so I have other issues with long exposures, but am curious about what leads to the "several minute" limit for the P30.

That is what I have been trying to figure out.. What the heck is several and why?

I have done some 30 second exposures and the noise was not too bad.
Cannot get to my studio until next week to get my release cable then I can just try it myself.. Just did not want to lug around both cameras.
Some one suggested shooting the 1DsMII wide open as possible. but I wanted to get more depth to the images and was planning on shooting between 5.6 and f11....?
I guess not body is doing long exposure with a P30..:+}
Thanks for the comments.
I think you can do longer exposures but they will be noisy as hell do to the heat produced maybe?

PS. I DO NOT WANT TO SHOOT STAR TRAILS!
I wanted to shoot factories and buildings at night by there street lights etc...

Snook

[Guy Mancuso]

Snook for some reason i thought you switched out for the Plus back.

[Snook]

Snook for some reason i thought you switched out for the Plus back.

NOPE...:+]
Did not feel it was worth the upgrade... I still do not...

I really love the my P30, Just started getting into a project I have wanted to do for a while and not sure if the P30 is the right tool..:+}

I put my P30 and cameras up for sell to see what I could get for them. Where I live most of the printing is SHIT and so the P30 is just overkill for me.
I see a BIG difference in the images, specially when retouching!
I have a BIG project I am going to have printed here in the next week or so and am waiting to see the difference as 1/2 the project was with a 1Ds and the last ones are done with the P30. I am printing to canvas rather BIG and will try some art papers as well, But most are limited to the HP Z3100 format as that is the best machine I have found here, which prints at it's widest 1.20 meters.
I also am a believer in the 3D feeling that some claim..:+}
But my clients do not appreciate the P30 as they do not see the difference. And the whole process is much slower.
For all my recent project I feel I would cutting short using anything but a MFDB.
I will probably end up keeping it as I am not desperate to sell it..:+}

Where I live, it is impossible to rent so it is either my P30 or my 1DsMII for the moment. I am sure I could borrow a 1DsMIII from a photographer here, But do not think it is worth the hassle.

Snook

[Guy Mancuso]

Well the reality is I am better to have the MF system and rent the DSLR's when i need them myself. First hard to rent the MF systems here in Phoenix which is like the 7th or thereabouts  largest city in the US which makes no sense and i would have to ship in from Samy's in LA but i can rent a DSLR in about 10 minutes from 2 sources and much cheaper costs. Funny thing is though i have yet to rent and seem to be getting it all done with MF which is good. I think a lot of shooters are setup like this or own a 35mm on the side for other projects. End of the day there just tools to us to get a job done and get paid. My issue is clients makes wall banners without letting me know first and my 35mm files just would not hold up well , so main reason i switched over. I shoot a lot of corporate stuff and clients do all sorts of different media with your files, so having the big files just protects me. I would think the P30 at least does 30 seconds at least but never tried this back.

[Doug Peterson]

I'm curious what defines "several minutes" as an exposure limitation with the non-plus back?  Is it an image quality issue, or is there an electronic or mechanical issue that somehow prevents longer exposures?.  I have mine on a Contax, so I have other issues with long exposures, but am curious about what leads to the "several minute" limit for the P30.

The limitation is that noise becomes unacceptable and/or image artifacts (like magenta streaks) begins to develop, usually at the edge of the frame to start. Nothing physically prevents you from longer exposures but the image will progressively degrade in IQ. Again, at low enough temperatures "many" minutes are probably possible.

The new plus series features better designed heat sinking (to suck heat away from the chip), and better electronics in the image path which, when combined with the automatic black frame, allow for longer exposures than the non plus (up to an hour at 63F). Since the non plus is older and doesn't have these improvements it has more limited long-exposure abilities.

FYI We have a solution for the Contax body for >30 second exposures; our multi-strobe-pop-and-long-exposure device.

Doug

Doug Peterson,  Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer  |  Personal Portfolio

[hauxon]

PS. I DO NOT WANT TO SHOOT STAR TRAILS!
I wanted to shoot factories and buildings at night by there street lights etc...

Snook

HAHA  

Anyway you could use the same technique (screening). Few minutes between frames would not be an issue for factories unless you have moving clouds or smoke in the frame.

Bets, Hrannar