Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Better Posts  (Read 7645 times)

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Better Posts
« on: November 27, 2008, 04:27:16 pm »

Try this one for size:

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

We should all start to worry!

Rob C

Ray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10365
Better Posts
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2008, 08:53:09 pm »

That's a very entertaining article, Rob, and the language issues raised are as relevant today as they were in 1946. However, his predictions about the future of society in 1984 were a bit off, though, don't you think?  
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Better Posts
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2008, 03:41:13 am »

Thankfully, yes; however, that´s not to say that things aren´t slowly going that way! On the matter of writing, it´s as if some of the curator-speak of today has been lifted straight off his article.

I suppose that when there is not really much to say about a picture, that´s the time when the seller feels the urgency to say much.

I might have posted this here before, and if so, please forgive me, but perhaps the incident bears the retelling. Anyway, some years ago I was in London and happened upon a show at Hamilton´s Gallery - it was by Robert Mapplethorpe´s brother. As I was walking slowly alongside the walls, looking somewhat bemusedly at the offerings thereon, I became aware of this chap and a woman standing to one side, and slightly behind me. He was telling her to notice the delicacy with which the photographer had captured the nuances of detail on the bakground to the main subject, the skill that took etc. I almost laughed out loud. The subject I can no longer remember, but the background I shall never forget: it was simply the woodchip wallpaper which the photographer had used as backdrop to the person he´d shot. I mean, how could he have AVOIDED the bloody texture using a side-light!

I have no idea whether the guy doing the speaking was an employee of the gallery or simply somebody trying to impress his girlfriend, but from the memory of the event I´d guess the former.

Sure seemed an easier route to riches than many others, including my own!

Rob C

Ray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10365
Better Posts
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2008, 04:51:03 am »

Quote from: Rob C
Thankfully, yes; however, that´s not to say that things aren´t slowly going that way! On the matter of writing, it´s as if some of the curator-speak of today has been lifted straight off his article.

I suppose that when there is not really much to say about a picture, that´s the time when the seller feels the urgency to say much.

I might have posted this here before, and if so, please forgive me, but perhaps the incident bears the retelling. Anyway, some years ago I was in London and happened upon a show at Hamilton´s Gallery - it was by Robert Mapplethorpe´s brother. As I was walking slowly alongside the walls, looking somewhat bemusedly at the offerings thereon, I became aware of this chap and a woman standing to one side, and slightly behind me. He was telling her to notice the delicacy with which the photographer had captured the nuances of detail on the bakground to the main subject, the skill that took etc. I almost laughed out loud. The subject I can no longer remember, but the background I shall never forget: it was simply the woodchip wallpaper which the photographer had used as backdrop to the person he´d shot. I mean, how could he have AVOIDED the bloody texture using a side-light!

I have no idea whether the guy doing the speaking was an employee of the gallery or simply somebody trying to impress his girlfriend, but from the memory of the event I´d guess the former.

Sure seemed an easier route to riches than many others, including my own!

Rob C

There was an interesting program on TV last night, about lying (ie. not telling the truth). Yes, I do watch TV sometimes. Don't criticise me. I get the impression that the 'Australian Broadcasting Corporation' airs better quality programs than the 'American Broadcasting Corporation', despite the fact they are both the ABC. (Should I duck for cover?   ).

There was a memorable episode which described the process of producing a painting done by a hippopotamus. The paint was applied to its tongue and it licked the canvass, producing the sort of abstract painting that might fool some folks into thinking the painting had some sort of ineffable profundity.

The painting was privately exhibited as an experiment to guage the reactions of a number of viewers, who were video recorded.

Privately, and therefore presumably honestly, a group of viewers thought the painting ridiculous. Some commented it was probably done by a monkey. Others said they could do a much better job themselves, even though they had little painting expertise. The general consensus was, the painting was crap.

In the next scene, the supposed painter walked into the room (not the hippopotamus), but an actor claiming to be the author of the work. He explained his motives, thoughts and aspirations in painting the work. He became eloquent on matters of light and shade, strength of brush technique, brilliance of primary colors which represented his unfulfilled dreams etc etc.

Suddenly, the audience responded in a completely positive way towards the painting. The viewers endorsed the painter's opinion of his work and even expanded upon it with accolades suggesting the work was a masterpiece and that it would have no trouble fetching a high price in a gallery.

Aren't we lovely   .


Logged

Richowens

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 977
Better Posts
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2008, 11:12:24 am »



 If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS.
Logged

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Better Posts
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2008, 11:39:09 am »

You've pointed to one of my favourite Orwell articles and the wonderful line "A mass of Latin words falls upon the facts like soft snow, blurring the outline and covering up all the details." On that note, from a recent post on this forum....

Quote
Since our species still uses pecuniary methodology for both status competition and reciprocal altruism, it does function reasonably well with in the boundaries of the currently emotionally acceptable solution space.

The question's answer is, generally & structurally speaking, yes. With the technological advances of the last few decades, information can move faster than it can be valued. So any restriction on its movement will tend to decrease its utility and "progress" generally.
Prior to these technological advances, information was often reliant on reciprocal altruism for movement. That is no longer the case, once infrastructure is paid for.

I'm sure the writer knows English too.

John
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Better Posts
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2008, 02:09:18 pm »

What a wonderful memory you have, John! Also, how kind not to name names...

But curiosity rears its prurient head!

Rob C

Eric Myrvaagnes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22813
  • http://myrvaagnes.com
    • http://myrvaagnes.com
Better Posts
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2008, 07:03:01 pm »

Quote from: Rob C
What a wonderful memory you have, John! Also, how kind not to name names...

But curiosity rears its prurient head!

Rob C
Try post #17 today: from the Coffee Corner, about Copyrights.
Logged
-Eric Myrvaagnes (visit my website: http://myrvaagnes.com)

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Better Posts
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2008, 02:42:43 am »

Quote from: EricM
Try post #17 today: from the Coffee Corner, about Copyrights.

Hey, it's not fair to "out" an individual so rudely. You should join the effort to translate it before it wins a prize. Let's start with "our species" becoming "we", "pecuniary methodology" can be "payment", and "with in [sic] the boundaries of the currently emotionally acceptable solution space" just makes you appreciate the elegance of colour management....

John
Logged

Eric Myrvaagnes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22813
  • http://myrvaagnes.com
    • http://myrvaagnes.com
Better Posts
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2008, 09:57:26 am »

Quote from: johnbeardy
Hey, it's not fair to "out" an individual so rudely. You should join the effort to translate it before it wins a prize. Let's start with "our species" becoming "we", "pecuniary methodology" can be "payment", and "with in [sic] the boundaries of the currently emotionally acceptable solution space" just makes you appreciate the elegance of colour management....

John
We could try getting one of the online language translation systems to render it into, say, Italian or Japanese, and then retranslate it back into English. Might be interesting.

P.S. I just checked out three of the prize winners at random at the link you provided and found all of them easier to understand than the quote you offered. Do you want to submit it, or should that honor go to the OP?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 10:01:13 am by EricM »
Logged
-Eric Myrvaagnes (visit my website: http://myrvaagnes.com)

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Better Posts
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2008, 11:48:18 am »

Well, Eric, to submit it on your own personal account would be analogous to the theft perpetrated upon an original Marlboro imager by the secondary creation of a second representation of the work of the former by a further imager within a fine-art context which apparently legitimises the theft by removing it from normal commercial constraints of copyright by depositing it fairly and squarely within an anything goes panorama defined by parameters coveniently veiled fom layman scrutiny by the best efforts of reputable and efficient galleristas and their legal representatives. Don´t you just love the free market! In any language.

Rob C

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Better Posts
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2008, 11:48:51 am »

Quote from: EricM
I just checked out three of the prize winners at random at the link you provided and found all of them easier to understand than the quote you offered. Do you want to submit it...?

No that would be cruel and unwarranted. After all, the same author is also capable of the stunning clarity of "Creativity, as commonly studied or discussed, is a mental process."

John
Logged

BFoto

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 239
    • Brad's blog
Better Posts
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2008, 12:18:13 pm »

You know, i find this diatribe rather offensive itself. Why don't you point out this conversation to the author you so desire to belittle, and allow him to defend your ignorant attacks.

" The great enemy of clear language is insincerity "
Orwell.

I found his comments to be quite clear. What seems to be the problem.

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Better Posts
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2008, 01:38:48 pm »

No desire to belittle its author, which is why I didn't link to him (after all, he uses his name rather than bravely hiding behind a pseudonym). The post, though one can understand it, is a perfect example of the absurdly-inflated style against which (edit - typo) Orwell was arguing. Is it defensible?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 06:04:55 am by johnbeardy »
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Better Posts
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2008, 03:05:45 pm »

It doesn´t have to be difficult to communicate about photography, about the art of it, the spirit and soul of the thing.

http://www.horvatland.com/pages/entrevues/07-moon-en_en.htm

(Note: in the typed link, there is a dropped - between en and en which doesn´t show up in the "Preview Post" window...)

And consider, this is a translation into English. If it doesn´t explain one style of creative process, then nothing ever will.

Should you care, this is where to find some of the work by which I best know her:

http://www.pirellical/thecal/calendar.html

I can´t get a closer link, but once in the site, click on 1972.

I think the series illustrates the previous article very well.

Rob C

BFoto

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 239
    • Brad's blog
Better Posts
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2008, 05:06:50 pm »

Quote from: johnbeardy
The post, though one can understand it, is a perfect example of the absurdly-inflated style against while Orwell was arguing. Is it defensible?

It might help if you get your English correct before professing your expertise on how this language should be expressed.

"is a perfect example of the absurdly-inflated style against while Orwell was arguing" What was the word you were after, no?

Absurdly-inflated style? Define this for me, or better, define how you think Orwell was trying to express it. Because, i don't think the posters comments you refer to are that inflated at all. Rather, i see them as being a little more intellectual (from the adjective meaning "involving thought and reason"), sure. However, far from absurd.

jani

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1624
    • Øyet
Better Posts
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2008, 06:25:48 pm »

Quote from: BFoto
It might help if you get your English correct before professing your expertise on how this language should be expressed.

"is a perfect example of the absurdly-inflated style against while Orwell was arguing" What was the word you were after, no?
"Which" (HTH, HAND)
Logged
Jan

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Better Posts
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2008, 06:03:18 am »

Quote from: BFoto
It might help if you get your English correct before professing your expertise on how this language should be expressed.

"is a perfect example of the absurdly-inflated style against while Orwell was arguing" What was the word you were after, no?
Ha ha. So fxxxing what? A slip of the "pen". Use apostrophes correctly, and capitalize too, before getting on your high horse - I hope your knuckles no longer scrape the ground from a loftier position.

"A little more intellectual". Oh come on! As in most academic or bureaucratic gobbledegook, there was a coherent point or argument, yet those paragraphs' lurid decoration was about as intellectual as a royal wardrobe change. Just shows you'll always find someone who'll defend the indefensible though.

I rather agree with you about "diatribe" and wish one had just taken a single swipe at that utterly-ridiculous passage. But I'm done arguing any more with someone who is so bravely anonymous. Is this dpReview?
Logged

BFoto

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 239
    • Brad's blog
Better Posts
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2008, 12:03:58 pm »

Quote from: johnbeardy
Ha ha. So fxxxing what? A slip of the "pen". Use apostrophes correctly, and capitalize too, before getting on your high horse - I hope your knuckles no longer scrape the ground from a loftier position.

"A little more intellectual". Oh come on! As in most academic or bureaucratic gobbledegook, there was a coherent point or argument, yet those paragraphs' lurid decoration was about as intellectual as a royal wardrobe change. Just shows you'll always find someone who'll defend the indefensible though.

I rather agree with you about "diatribe" and wish one had just taken a single swipe at that utterly-ridiculous passage. But I'm done arguing any more with someone who is so bravely anonymous. Is this dpReview?

Actually, my sentence structure was fine. It is possible to start a sentence with the word 'because' you know.

No anomymity needed here John. Brad Fernihough is my name and if you wish to continue with your diatribe give me a tinker - fernib70@hotmail.com. Go for your life mate....enlighten me with your thoughts.

You start a dialogue filled with vilification and when someone else bites back, you get all defensive and back peddle.

So full of it.

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Better Posts
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2008, 12:30:07 pm »

Note "the posters comments" lacks an apostrophe, and "i" is usually capitalized. I rest my case.

/unsubscribe
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 12:30:44 pm by johnbeardy »
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up