Camera Raw 5.2 has Output Sharpening!!

[Raw shooter]

The new Camera Raw 5.2 is just awesome -especially the new Output Sharpening, although not yet perfect - is a huge step forward.
The missing link in Camera Raw is now solved.

When you add the new CS4 Bridge to Camera Raw 5.2 -It's hard to believe so much improvement could happen so fast.

[Dustbak]

The new Camera Raw 5.2 is just awesome -especially the new Output Sharpening, although not yet perfect - is a huge step forward.
The missing link in Camera Raw is now solved.

When you add the new CS4 Bridge to Camera Raw 5.2 -It's hard to believe so much improvement could happen so fast.

Why would that make you so much happier? Unless you are taking images immediately from ACR to print I cannot get really warm & fuzzy about that immediately. Or am I missing something?

[DarkPenguin]

If 5.2 has all the LR2.1 features then the frequency of someone taking images straight from bridge/acr to print is going to be greatly increased.

[Anthony.Ralph]

The new Camera Raw 5.2 is just awesome -especially the new Output Sharpening, although not yet perfect - is a huge step forward.
The missing link in Camera Raw is now solved.

When you add the new CS4 Bridge to Camera Raw 5.2 -It's hard to believe so much improvement could happen so fast.

I have found all the other new features of ACR5.2, but cannot see where to access the output sharpening. could you give me a clue as to where it is hiding?

Thanks...

Anthony.

[Raw shooter]

I have found all the other new features of ACR5.2, but cannot see where to access the output sharpening. could you give me a clue as to where it is hiding?

Thanks...

Anthony.

In ACR 5.2, click the Workflow Options at the bottom of the screen.
In the pop-up Window, it will be the lowest option.

It will give you 2 Options for Sharpening:
1)Screen, Glossy Paper, or Matte Paper
2) Low, Standard, or High

Try it out.  I am truly amazed how well this works.

[Anthony.Ralph]

In ACR 5.2, click the Workflow Options at the bottom of the screen.
In the pop-up Window, it will be the lowest option.

It will give you 2 Options for Sharpening:
1)Screen, Glossy Paper, or Matte Paper
2) Low, Standard, or High

Try it out.  I am truly amazed how well this works.

Thanks for that.  Got it straight away once I checked your information. Like you, I am very pleased with hoe ACR looks and performs now.

Regards:

Anthony.

[teddillard]

OMGOMG and the Targeted Adjustment Brush?  The Snapshots?  The added Camera Profiles in the Camera Calibration tab?  

This is such a sleeper...  great stuff!

[bjanes]

In ACR 5.2, click the Workflow Options at the bottom of the screen.
In the pop-up Window, it will be the lowest option.

It will give you 2 Options for Sharpening:
1)Screen, Glossy Paper, or Matte Paper
2) Low, Standard, or High

Try it out.  I am truly amazed how well this works.

The new output sharpening features are most welcome, but they do require setting of the resolution in advance so that the image size in inches will be correct when the image is opened in Photoshop. For example, my camera's raw file is 2832 x 4256 pixels. The default resolution in ACR for this camera is 240 pixels/inch, and this gives a picture size of 11.8 by 17.73 when opened in Photoshop. If I want a print 13 inches on the short axis (which is the maximal width for my Epson printer), with the old workflow I would open the file in Photoshop and set the image width to 13 inches without resampling, giving a resolution of 218 ppi. In this case, the default resolution is not relevant--only the pixel dimensions of the image matter. I would then crop in the long axis if necessary, output sharpen with PK Sharpener and then print.

With the new workflow and built in output sharpening, I need to set the resolution in ACR to 218 ppi.  When the file is opened in Photoshop, the image is appropriately sized. No big deal, but it does require a bit of planning.

Bill

[madmanchan]

That's right, Bill, the output sharpening is tailored to the image resolution specified in CR's Workflow Options (either specified in pixels/in or pixels/cm).

[bjanes]

That's right, Bill, the output sharpening is tailored to the image resolution specified in CR's Workflow Options (either specified in pixels/in or pixels/cm).

Eric,
Thanks for the reply.

The nice thing about the new sharpening workflow is that all the editing is done in metadata and no intermediate TIFFs are necessary. Is there a way to have multiple ACR versions of the same file, say in this case for different final image resolutions? I think this has been covered before, but my memory fails me.]

Bill

[teddillard]

Eric,
Thanks for the reply.

The nice thing about the new sharpening workflow is that all the editing is done in metadata and no intermediate TIFFs are necessary. Is there a way to have multiple ACR versions of the same file, say in this case for different final image resolutions? I think this has been covered before, but my memory fails me.]

Bill

I'm pretty sure the Snapshots Tab will allow you to do that...  make different settings, save as snapshot, repeat.  Not positive, though, I haven't had a chance to tear into that.  Of course, working with them as multiple layer Smart Objects is an option too...  just turn off the versions you don't want.

Does anyone know how exactly the sharpening is being done?  Is it USM?  Is there any way to control the parameters, other than the pulldowns?

[teddillard]

The new output sharpening features are most welcome, but they do require setting of the resolution in advance so that the image size in inches will be correct when the image is opened in Photoshop. For example, my camera's raw file is 2832 x 4256 pixels. The default resolution in ACR for this camera is 240 pixels/inch, and this gives a picture size of 11.8 by 17.73 when opened in Photoshop. If I want a print 13 inches on the short axis (which is the maximal width for my Epson printer), with the old workflow I would open the file in Photoshop and set the image width to 13 inches without resampling, giving a resolution of 218 ppi. In this case, the default resolution is not relevant--only the pixel dimensions of the image matter. I would then crop in the long axis if necessary, output sharpen with PK Sharpener and then print.

With the new workflow and built in output sharpening, I need to set the resolution in ACR to 218 ppi.  When the file is opened in Photoshop, the image is appropriately sized. No big deal, but it does require a bit of planning.

Bill

I'm pretty sure it would work to use the Crop Tool pulldown, and there you can select the output size and res. and simply do a full frame crop...  That will give you exactly the size and res you want.

[madmanchan]

Is there a way to have multiple ACR versions of the same file, say in this case for different final image resolutions? I think this has been covered before, but my memory fails me.

Yes and no.

As Ted mentioned, the new Snapshots feature in CR 5.2 will let you have multiple versions of the same file. All of the XMP metadata that normally gets associated with an image (e.g., in a sidecar, or embedded in a DNG) gets thrown into a snapshot. So you can have multiple flavors of a single image, e.g., a color rendition, a black-and-white rendition, different crop rectangles, etc. each one as a separate snapshot. (All the snapshots get thrown into the same sidecar file, or embedded in a DNG).

However, the items in the Workflow Options dialog box (e.g., output sharpening) are not per-image settings. Hence they do not get saved with snapshots (or any type of per-image data), so at the moment you cannot have multiple flavors of, say, desired output resolution, image size, and output sharpening settings.

[Raw shooter]

As T Knoll once said, Photoshop will become a plugin to Camera Raw.
I think that is is now happening

[madmanchan]

Does anyone know how exactly the sharpening is being done?  Is it USM?  Is there any way to control the parameters, other than the pulldowns?

Although we are not disclosing the exact algorithms used to perform the output sharpening, I can say it's based on a collaboration with PixelGenius. So if you have Bruce Fraser's book "Image Sharpening with Adobe Photoshop CS2" that should give you some idea of what's going on.

And no, there's no way to control the parameters aside from the pulldowns, and from our testing there is no need to for images that have been properly capture sharpened and (optionally) creative-sharpened.

[Schewe]

As T Knoll once said, Photoshop will become a plugin to Camera Raw.
I think that is is now happening

Actually Thomas didn't say that...he (or Bruce Fraser) was quoting me. In Thomas' mind, Camera Raw is kinda the new evolution of digital imaging and while it started as a raw file format import plug-in (that's really all it is), it has grown to be an entire pipeline for raw image processing with Bridge as the mouth and Photoshop as the asshole. (I say that in jest but to also illustrate the point of ingestion and output). Lightroom is the embodiment of all of that in a single application. But at version 2.1 (2.2 due in Dec) it has a long way to go to catch up to Camera Raw's version 5 and Photoshop's version 11 status. Oh, and to those that think Thomas, Zalman and Eric are done...they aren't!!!

Some pretty cool stuff being worked on for the future (which of course, none of us can talk about :~)

[button]

Although we are not disclosing the exact algorithms used to perform the output sharpening, I can say it's based on a collaboration with PixelGenius. So if you have Bruce Fraser's book "Image Sharpening with Adobe Photoshop CS2" that should give you some idea of what's going on.

And no, there's no way to control the parameters aside from the pulldowns, and from our testing there is no need to for images that have been properly capture sharpened and (optionally) creative-sharpened.

One thing about output sharpening in Camera Raw that bothers me, and probably because I don't really understand sharpening that well, is this:  won't output sharpening at this level interfere with whatever you do to the image in photoshop?  I thinking of things like softproofing compensation steps, like curves and saturation adjustments, as well as creative sharpening.  I thougt output sharpening was the absoulute last thing you are supposed to do to an image.  Can someone please explain?

Thanks,
John

[jani]

(Photoshop) has grown to be an entire pipeline for raw image processing with Bridge as the mouth and Photoshop as the asshole.

Does that mean that the web is a sewage system?

[teddillard]

Yes and no.

As Ted mentioned, the new Snapshots feature in CR 5.2 will let you have multiple versions of the same file. All of the XMP metadata that normally gets associated with an image (e.g., in a sidecar, or embedded in a DNG) gets thrown into a snapshot. So you can have multiple flavors of a single image, e.g., a color rendition, a black-and-white rendition, different crop rectangles, etc. each one as a separate snapshot. (All the snapshots get thrown into the same sidecar file, or embedded in a DNG).

However, the items in the Workflow Options dialog box (e.g., output sharpening) are not per-image settings. Hence they do not get saved with snapshots (or any type of per-image data), so at the moment you cannot have multiple flavors of, say, desired output resolution, image size, and output sharpening settings.

ah, dammit.  

so that just leaves my Smart Objects.    

Does the "output" sharpening get applied if, in Camera RAW, you just go right to "Save Images" as, well, a JPEG or something?  And is it officially called Output Sharpening?  

[Schewe]

won't output sharpening at this level interfere with whatever you do to the image in photoshop?

YES!!!

If you are going to be doing substantial imaging work in Photoshop including resizing and other things that will impact size and compositing, you really would _NOT_ want to use output sharpening in the workflow settings...the output sharpening is designed to be done ONLY when the final image size/resolution can be determined and set in Camera Raw. Resizing or resampling of an output sharpened image is not encouraged nor part of the post-processing in Photoshop.

However, if you DO accomplish everything in Camera Raw and simply want to print it at the PPI and size that comes out of Camera Raw, this is a workflow enhancement. I would hope that in the future, Camera Raw's output size/resolution usability is substantially improved. In ACR 5.2, the resampling algorithms have been improved to be equal to or better than Photoshop's own resampling option. By default, any downsample will use a flavor similar to bicubic sharper (don't know if it's exactly the same) but the upsample is an adaptive blend of regular bicubic (for small increases) and a bicubuc smoother flavor for larger resamples. Eric can tell you more about this improvement–it was one of his babies this time around (as well as fixing the output sharpening–thanks Eric).

But the fact is that the usability is still primitive. For example, you are limited to selecting one of only a few resample options and there's no readout for the resulting image dimension at a given PPI output resolution. Camera Raw knows all that stuff, but just doesn't have the UI to display it for useful purposes...also, the fact that Camera Raw may no be the optimal place to resample, you're still limited to a pitiful fews size options. That needs to be addressed...but not in the 5.x timeframe (I don't think).