Experience with the Mamiya DL28?

[kirktuck]

I recently was offered the opportunity to play with a Mamiya DL28 package for several weeks and wonder if anyone else on LL has played with or bought the system?  It uses a Leaf 28 meg back and the Mamiya 645 AFD3 body.  Comes with an 80mm lens for $15K.  So far, shooting in the studio with it has been very nice.  In comparison with other cameras I've used it seems that the dynamic range is really wonderful.

I'm curious about why a portrait or people photographer would need more pixel than this system provides?

How can it be so inexpensive?

How have people's experiences been with the Mamiya bodies and lenses?

If there are any photographers left who are still working for clients and buying gear?

I'm going to write about the camera but a couple of weeks shoehorned into obligations is hardly enough time to get totally conversant with the camera and I would appreciate hearing other people's opinions and experiences.  This is the first system I've seen that has the right value proposition for a number of mid level pro's who can't quite swing the big stuff but who would benefit from some of the aspects of medium format.

Thanks, Kirk Tuck

[kirktuck]

So no one has experience with this?  Or are we put off by the low price tag?

I recently was offered the opportunity to play with a Mamiya DL28 package for several weeks and wonder if anyone else on LL has played with or bought the system?  It uses a Leaf 28 meg back and the Mamiya 645 AFD3 body.  Comes with an 80mm lens for $15K.  So far, shooting in the studio with it has been very nice.  In comparison with other cameras I've used it seems that the dynamic range is really wonderful.

I'm curious about why a portrait or people photographer would need more pixel than this system provides?

How can it be so inexpensive?

How have people's experiences been with the Mamiya bodies and lenses?

If there are any photographers left who are still working for clients and buying gear?

I'm going to write about the camera but a couple of weeks shoehorned into obligations is hardly enough time to get totally conversant with the camera and I would appreciate hearing other people's opinions and experiences.  This is the first system I've seen that has the right value proposition for a number of mid level pro's who can't quite swing the big stuff but who would benefit from some of the aspects of medium format.

Thanks, Kirk Tuck

[TMARK]

So no one has experience with this?  Or are we put off by the low price tag?

"We" are put off by our stills client's going bankrupt, closing the doors, cutting budgets, and the availability of cheaper solutions that offer comparable image quality.  "We" also sold our Phase back in favor of film, Canon's, and a Red 1.

I would have jumped at this a year ago.  As it is, I dumped MFDB's.  They don't make sense for most people photography.  Products, beauty, arch., I guess landscapes, sure, but for fashion editorials, they just don't make sense, what with the Canons being so good and film being so pretty.

 

[michaelnotar]

i have had mamiya 67 RB and RZ systems and currently a M645AFD2 w/55,80,150 lenses and i am really happy, i am shooting with a P25, FF 22MP back. that price sounds good, and comparable to a phase one system w/P1 P30 31mm cropped sensor.

i think their lenses are under rated, sure Hassy is supposed to be the sh*t but others are extremely good, even better, like fuginon/fugi. some people say the mamiya lenses arent built that well but i dont have a problem. i like that almost all of there lenses take 58mm filters and the next common size is 77mm, (like my canons).

i like the AFD2 body too, im a fan. my only complaint, AF is ok at best, i wish the AF points were a bit more precise, not more points, just smaller ones. its more like a MF system which a quick focus (aka AF), it makes me shoot slower (and the back can only go 1 frame in 2 secs), but my keeper rate is really high.

capture one 4.5 is great in getting rid of the slight CA that the lenses occasionally have, but by 2 stops down from max fstop most of the effect is gone.

its a time to use what you have and enjoy it not to get new toys just cuz you can...

[mcfoto]

The MAC group have added a lens of your choice to this deal 55 2.8 or 150 3.5.
http://www.mamiya.com/mamiya-dl28.html?utm...20%241%2C100%2E

[kirktuck]

I have played with the DL28 for several weeks now and have found that focusing can be a little dicey.  I like the interface on the back.  I think the Mamiya lenses are very, very good for the money and I'm happy the camera accepts even my old M645 lenses.  In all I think it's a really nice package.  When it hits $12,000 it will sell well to all of us who remember how nice medium format portraits were.

[TMARK]

I have played with the DL28 for several weeks now and have found that focusing can be a little dicey.  I like the interface on the back.  I think the Mamiya lenses are very, very good for the money and I'm happy the camera accepts even my old M645 lenses.  In all I think it's a really nice package.  When it hits $12,000 it will sell well to all of us who remember how nice medium format portraits were.

I think its a great deal if you can justify the price, which is difficult.  It would have been an even better deal if they were selling this kit last year when we all had some extra cash.

The AFd3 body is pretty good.  I think AF is almost useless on the Mamiyas.  Fortunately the Viewfinders are pretty good.

Even at $12k, its too much.  Even for me, a guy who remembers medium format portraits and even 4x5.  In fact, I smell like Kodafix right now and my wrists hurt after processing 17 rolls of 120 in Rodinal.  If I want the MF look I'll shoot MF film or let a client pay the rental on a back.  If a client wants digital and is too cheap to rent a back, they get the 5D/1ds2 and soon 5D2.  They really don't care what I shoot, when it comes to digital.  They do express a preference for film.

At $8k, I'm sold.  

[JDBFreeheel]

I actually just received this kit on Friday afternoon from my friendly UPS driver, after upgrading from my Mamiya ZD set up following a few major problems with the ZD. I worked with MAC Group to upgrade to this new kit, to stay in the Mamiya family.

I will be posting my thoughts and some samples of images as I work with it.  I was delayed in taking some shots today, as, unfortunately my battery was DOA upon arrival.  I bought some extras today.  Stay tuned.

Josh B.

[ziocan]

I actually just received this kit on Friday afternoon from my friendly UPS driver, after upgrading from my Mamiya ZD set up following a few major problems with the ZD. I worked with MAC Group to upgrade to this new kit, to stay in the Mamiya family.

I will be posting my thoughts and some samples of images as I work with it.  I was delayed in taking some shots today, as, unfortunately my battery was DOA upon arrival.  I bought some extras today.  Stay tuned.

Josh B.

I'd love to ear your impression, as i'm also  interested on purchasing the kit sometime next year. I realized that now they are offering the kit with the 80mm for 14.999$ plus they will let you chose another lens, either the 55mm or the 150mm, until the end of feb 2008.
Somehow I have the feeling that all those temporary offers from the DB companies, are going to last longer that they are meant.

I had a chance of playing with the Mamiya DL28 for 10 minutes at the PhotoExpo in NY and my impression were fairly positive, although the AF was not as "snappy" as the hasselblad it seemed to work decently for an MF. On sequence shooting it was as fast as an Hassy or a Phase back up to the first 5 or 6 frames, than it was slowing down, where normally the hassy back or the phase that i have used recently, keep shooting at a regular pace of 1fps. I was shooting to a Sandisk IV 4gb card, which are the fastest I guess. Maybe some of you that have used it for sometime, can tell us if the camera slows down after a few frames as it happened with me.
Yet at 15k, the mamiya DL28  is "only" 3k away from the hasselblad kit with the 80mm and the 31.
But more important where can we see some real sample files from this camera?

[mcfoto]

I'd love to ear your impression, as i'm also  interested on purchasing the kit sometime next year. I realized that now they are offering the kit with the 80mm for 14.999$ plus they will let you chose another lens, either the 55mm or the 150mm, until the end of feb 2008.
Somehow I have the feeling that all those temporary offers from the DB companies, are going to last longer that they are meant.

I had a chance of playing with the Mamiya DL28 for 10 minutes at the PhotoExpo in NY and my impression were fairly positive, although the AF was not as "snappy" as the hasselblad it seemed to work decently for an MF. On sequence shooting it was as fast as an Hassy or a Phase back up to the first 5 or 6 frames, than it was slowing down, where normally the hassy back or the phase that i have used recently, keep shooting at a regular pace of 1fps. I was shooting to a Sandisk IV 4gb card, which are the fastest I guess. Maybe some of you that have used it for sometime, can tell us if the camera slows down after a few frames as it happened with me.
Yet at 15k, the mamiya DL28  is "only" 3k away from the hasselblad kit with the 80mm and the 31.
But more important where can we see some real sample files from this camera?

Hi
You are really comparing the Dalsa (DL28) to the Kodax chip (H3D-31) & that will be the real difference. The Leaf 11 software is very good plus you  can process the MOS (Leaf) files in Adobe Raw if you wish.
Denis

[Justin Berman]

I think its a great deal if you can justify the price, which is difficult.  It would have been an even better deal if they were selling this kit last year when we all had some extra cash.

The AFd3 body is pretty good.  I think AF is almost useless on the Mamiyas.  Fortunately the Viewfinders are pretty good.

Even at $12k, its too much.  Even for me, a guy who remembers medium format portraits and even 4x5.  In fact, I smell like Kodafix right now and my wrists hurt after processing 17 rolls of 120 in Rodinal.  If I want the MF look I'll shoot MF film or let a client pay the rental on a back.  If a client wants digital and is too cheap to rent a back, they get the 5D/1ds2 and soon 5D2.  They really don't care what I shoot, when it comes to digital.  They do express a preference for film.

At $8k, I'm sold.

Really? Really? 8k usd?

So What you are saying is that you think that the AFD3 body ($4409) plus the new 80mm lens ($1143) + a 55 2.8 ($1188) or 150 3.5 ($1189) plus an aptus 6II back with mamiya adaptor (according to the leaf dealer I talked to $20k) should be priced at $8k to make you bite?

For those who dont want to do the math: $27740 or so.

[ziocan]

Extrapolating from my Aptus 22, I am sure the new AII6 is a very capable back with beautiful files.

The downside in general is the AFDIII is a nice camera, but not worth $4400. The new 80mmD is nice but not THAT much better than the regualr 80mm AF and the 55mm and 150mm lenses are dirt cheap. So $15K or less is a better price for sure than the sum of the parts.

It's just a tough time right now for many to justify buying $15K or more cameras when $2700 cameras do about 99% the same job for photographers who don't have equipment insecurities.

I agree. In fact my dilemma is that in order to make a real difference, one has to skip the 28/31mp range and go to 39mp. The Hassy and Phase kits are at about 21K, still sort of "affordable".... there you can be sure that the back will make the difference. The Sony and the Nikon are too close to the 28/31 range. Yes i know the dynamic range..... you can tweak the files more.... the colors... (the colors I'm not so sure) I'm afraid only my tech and I will notice the difference. the clients will still pay me the same as I was using the DSLR, a part for few hundred bucks in digital fees, I would charge extra per day.

Sometime when I look at my beauty files, before retouching and after.... practically we use all the MP to reproduce eyelashes, few pores here and there and eyebrows and lips of course, if I have used enough DOF, all the rest goes down the drain after few thousands $ of retouching.