Best tripod and head for very exact multiple shots

[jing q]

I've been having a problem for the longest time, when I take multiple shots of the same setup for compositing purposes, I notice very slight shifts in angle (due to camera not being perfectly in place when shutter is pressed?)
This makes it quite irritating when compositing in post production...I need to rotate my images by a fraction of a degree to get the images to line up exactly.

I've used a few tripod heads and I wanted to see if people deal with the same issues or whether you guys don't have any problem getting each picture in exactly the same composition each time, and whether anyone has recommendations on the best tripods and heads to use.

At this time I use a Manfrotto 161MK2 studio tripod http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/site/manfro...8|69&idx=70
and a Manfrotto 410 junior geared head http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/site/manfro...0|81&idx=85

[Dustbak]

As long as I am not fiddling around with focussing I have no problem with getting it completely exact. I use it very often where I would make 1 take at 4-shot of the room/surroundings and than I take multiple shots of the same with people in it at 1-shot (naturally). It is exact to the pixel. I have tried various other systems before the 1 I am currently using and indeed this did give problems with the images not perfectly aligning.

I sometimes have to focus blend as well and this does mean in many cases that I have to ask Photoshop to align these images for me and than mask out the unwanted areas by hand. This situation is quite normal I believe.

In my tiny studio I use a Cambo UST which can be totally fixed and weighs about 200pounds. On location I use a Gitzo 3540XLS with Burzynski head. Both are doing a swell job, but I think I went through at least 10 different systems before I got there

[jing q]

As long as I am not fiddling around with focussing I have no problem with getting it completely exact. I use it very often where I would make 1 take at 4-shot of the room/surroundings and than I take multiple shots of the same with people in it at 1-shot (naturally). It is exact to the pixel. I have tried various other systems before the 1 I am currently using and indeed this did give problems with the images not perfectly aligning.

I sometimes have to focus blend as well and this does mean in many cases that I have to ask Photoshop to align these images for me and than mask out the unwanted areas by hand. This situation is quite normal I believe.

In my tiny studio I use a Cambo UST which can be totally fixed and weighs about 200pounds. On location I use a Gitzo 3540XLS with Burzynski head. Both are doing a swell job, but I think I went through at least 10 different systems before I got there

The thing about rotating in post is that the quality degrades quite severely I realised, upon zooming in to inspect.
I'm thinking of getting a Gitzo carbon fibre tripod and geared head...hopefully that helps in some way.
Love my current geared head, hope I don't have to change that!

[Graham Mitchell]

Something sounds wrong. You should be able to perform multiple shots without camera movement. Have you tried mirror lockup and a remote release? Is it a focal plane shutter? Are you sure that everything is locked down properly first?

[Dale Allyn]

This sounds like pan rotation is not occurring at the lens' exact nodal point and you're getting parallax. Is this possibly what you're seeing and describing? If so, the fist step would be to determine that precise nodal point more accurately and probably to implement a good panning devise similar to the RRS pano kit. When elements of the subject are close to the camera (i.e. not a distant landscape element) this parallax can be very obvious.

If this sounds like it could apply you might like to check out the RRS info on panos as it would apply to multi-shot product composites as well. Perhaps we're not quite understanding the description of the problem though.

RRS: Eliminate Parallax

RRS: Find Nodal Point

Alain Hamblenne posted a tutorial to find the precise nodal point/entrance pupil of the lens. Info is available via the link at bottom (pdf file).

[Rick_Allen]

Come on fess up! Whats this really about? I know what you're trying to do, you're trying to get someone to say that you NEED the arca cube head aren't you. You're so transparent :-) Here I'll even give you a link to adorama so you dont have to waste time searching http://www.adorama.com/AWC1.html?searchinf...e&item_no=1


 

Your Welcome!!!!

[jing q]

Something sounds wrong. You should be able to perform multiple shots without camera movement. Have you tried mirror lockup and a remote release? Is it a focal plane shutter? Are you sure that everything is locked down properly first?

yes remote release, there are still very very slight movements. I'm using an AFDII. This is in a horizontal setup. I don't what to imagine what would happen if it were vertical.
Can I know what tripod/head combination you guys who are not experiencing any problems are using?

[arc-technika]

I've had great results with flipping a Manfrotto 410B geared head upside down (courtesy from Eric Staud)- attaching the top plate with a double sided female Manfrotto accessory and grinding down a 3/8" bolt to attach a Linhof quick release plate to the bottom of the head.  Once the X and Y axis' are level, I can then pan a 360 degrees with the rotational axis. Kind of tough to explain, but I've been very happy with layering multiple exposure shots together.

[Dale Allyn]

I guess that I misunderstood your process. It now sounds like you're not moving your camera or panning for stitching extra-high res files as I first understood. My mistake.

If you are experiencing movement between shots while not moving camera or other gear, have you tried weighting your setup? I shoot table-top stuff for which I typically hang three sandbags on the tripod and head. One near the head and at least two lower down. My sandbags have slings on them so I can hang several of them, but four is about the most I use. I do this to dampen movement with typically long exposures, as I have not had a need for composites where part of the setting changes for the final shot. My exposures are typically 2 to 10 seconds and I have not experienced movement when I use the sandbags. I do the same with photomicroscopy which is much more sensitive. In all cases I make sure that the whole setup has been pressed into it's settled position prior to starting the shots.

My typical tripod is either the Gitzo 3541 XLS or the Explorer. RRS BH-55 on the 3541 and a smaller ball head on the Explorer. I've also used a heavy rigid boom stand for this, but I still weighted it with the sand bags for the longer exposures. I get no movement with any of these when used as described.

Sorry if I'm missing your intended description of your setup.

[Kumar]

If you're in a studio with wooden floors or near a large elevator, they might also be contributing to small vibrations in the building.

Kumar

[jing q]

I guess that I misunderstood your process. It now sounds like you're not moving your camera or panning for stitching extra-high res files as I first understood. My mistake.

If you are experiencing movement between shots while not moving camera or other gear, have you tried weighting your setup? I shoot table-top stuff for which I typically hang three sandbags on the tripod and head. One near the head and at least two lower down. My sandbags have slings on them so I can hang several of them, but four is about the most I use. I do this to dampen movement with typically long exposures, as I have not had a need for composites where part of the setting changes for the final shot. My exposures are typically 2 to 10 seconds and I have not experienced movement when I use the sandbags. I do the same with photomicroscopy which is much more sensitive. In all cases I make sure that the whole setup has been pressed into it's settled position prior to starting the shots.

My typical tripod is either the Gitzo 3541 XLS or the Explorer. RRS BH-55 on the 3541 and a smaller ball head on the Explorer. I've also used a heavy rigid boom stand for this, but I still weighted it with the sand bags for the longer exposures. I get no movement with any of these when used as described.

Sorry if I'm missing your intended description of your setup.

Thanks! Weighing down the tripod sounds like something I should do more often. That's something I overlook most of the time because I'm working very guerilla style and travelling as light as I can...

[Carsten W]

Thanks! Weighing down the tripod sounds like something I should do more often. That's something I overlook most of the time because I'm working very guerilla style and travelling as light as I can...

Many tripods have a hook at the bottom of the centre column, where you can hang your photo bag. No need to carry extra stuff if that is the case.

[Plekto]

There are also little gel isolation pads that you can put the legs on.  These really work for small movements(if you are in a building over a few stories high, the wind alone could make the building wobble enough to shift things)

Me?  I gave up on cheap tripods a long time ago and got an old-school wooden type typically used for a small telescope.  Yes, it's stupidly heavy, but for most shots, 15-20lbs isn't a huge deal.(I have a couple of much lighter ones for trips and such of course)

If you're panning, of course, for stitching and the like, a geared mount is obviously better than a friction type, but they usually are pricey.

Edit: If you have to travel light, here are a few basic tips about tripods(IME of course)

- weighing it down can help a lot of course.  But cheap legs tend to bend or distort, making it worse.  
- Get something with rectangular instead of round legs if you can.  This should minimize sideways flexing a bit.  Most are round, though, so what's really important is the way it holds itself together.
- The legs should be held in place with screws and preset holes if possible or a tight friction grip/clip.  I see a lot of tripods with flimsy legs that bounce or wobble if you tap on them hard or that are those nasty type that have a round part that you twist to make it tight(usually with round tubing).  These always slip when you add enough weight.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/4558...ripod_with.html
Typical garbage that I was talking about.  Those round friction (not sure what to call them) are nasty.  I always go for a clip that snaps or locks solidly into place. (or the wood one I have has drilled holes - even lower tech here)

[Jack Flesher]

I have noted very slight movements even when the camera and head are held absolutely motionless -- I have used a Gitzo 3540 XLS and Arca Cube head for stitching for some time. Usually these are the order of half a pixel or less if the camera is held stationary.  But, half a pixel is worse than a full pixel since it is impossible to align perfectly.  Obviously moving the lens and or camera will alter things more, up to several pixels off.  Also if you change focus, you change the focal length of the lens which will also alter registration.

My point here is no matter how good your head and pod and capture techniques are, if you just touch the camera, pod or lens, some displacement is inevitable with high resolution sensors.  In this case, the best solution might be to use Cs's "Align Layers" command if it will work for your application...

Another alternative is to manually register the layers.  TO do this you stack the layers on top of each other and set the blend mode to "Difference."  Perfect registration will be the darkest image you can make.  Adjustments to the layer can be made by selecting the move tool (V) and using the cursor keys to move the layer one pixel at a time in your preferred direction (Shift+cursor moves it 10 pixels at a time.)

PS: Geared heads by their nature have "backlash" in the gear drive mechanism and thus not fully stable, and the 410 or 405 are no exceptions. Niether is the Arca Cube, but it has a friction mechanism that attempts to limit it.  By far, a beefy lockable head like the Arca B1G or Burzynski would be preferred for perfect registrations...

Cheers,

[Graham Mitchell]

yes remote release, there are still very very slight movements. I'm using an AFDII. This is in a horizontal setup. I don't what to imagine what would happen if it were vertical.
Can I know what tripod/head combination you guys who are not experiencing any problems are using?

I'm using Arca Swiss B1, Manfrotto 055ProB

The QR system is another potential point of weakness worrth looking at.

[jing q]

I have noted very slight movements even when the camera and head are held absolutely motionless -- I have used a Gitzo 3540 XLS and Arca Cube head for stitching for some time. Usually these are the order of half a pixel or less if the camera is held stationary.  But, half a pixel is worse than a full pixel since it is impossible to align perfectly.  Obviously moving the lens and or camera will alter things more, up to several pixels off.  Also if you change focus, you change the focal length of the lens which will also alter registration.

My point here is no matter how good your head and pod and capture techniques are, if you just touch the camera, pod or lens, some displacement is inevitable with high resolution sensors.  In this case, the best solution might be to use Cs's "Align Layers" command if it will work for your application...

Another alternative is to manually register the layers.  TO do this you stack the layers on top of each other and set the blend mode to "Difference."  Perfect registration will be the darkest image you can make.  Adjustments to the layer can be made by selecting the move tool (V) and using the cursor keys to move the layer one pixel at a time in your preferred direction (Shift+cursor moves it 10 pixels at a time.)

PS: Geared heads by their nature have "backlash" in the gear drive mechanism and thus not fully stable, and the 410 or 405 are no exceptions. Niether is the Arca Cube, but it has a friction mechanism that attempts to limit it.  By far, a beefy lockable head like the Arca B1G or Burzynski would be preferred for perfect registrations...

Cheers,

exactly what I'm talking about....
Regarding adjustments to layers, do you have a better way to ROTATE the images so they line up.
Moving left and right is no problem, but when there is any movement the image tends to tilt over to one side, forcing me to figure out the rotation needed to line it up later on in post

[jing q]

There are also little gel isolation pads that you can put the legs on.  These really work for small movements(if you are in a building over a few stories high, the wind alone could make the building wobble enough to shift things)

Me?  I gave up on cheap tripods a long time ago and got an old-school wooden type typically used for a small telescope.  Yes, it's stupidly heavy, but for most shots, 15-20lbs isn't a huge deal.(I have a couple of much lighter ones for trips and such of course)

If you're panning, of course, for stitching and the like, a geared mount is obviously better than a friction type, but they usually are pricey.

Edit: If you have to travel light, here are a few basic tips about tripods(IME of course)

- weighing it down can help a lot of course.  But cheap legs tend to bend or distort, making it worse.  
- Get something with rectangular instead of round legs if you can.  This should minimize sideways flexing a bit.  Most are round, though, so what's really important is the way it holds itself together.
- The legs should be held in place with screws and preset holes if possible or a tight friction grip/clip.  I see a lot of tripods with flimsy legs that bounce or wobble if you tap on them hard or that are those nasty type that have a round part that you twist to make it tight(usually with round tubing).  These always slip when you add enough weight.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/4558...ripod_with.html
Typical garbage that I was talking about.  Those round friction (not sure what to call them) are nasty.  I always go for a clip that snaps or locks solidly into place. (or the wood one I have has drilled holes - even lower tech here)

Are the wooden kinds better at preventing movement?
I wonder whether the Gitzo carbon fibre tripods will be better than my Manfrotto right now. the largest Gitzo carbon fibre goes up to 2.6m which is pretty darn good....

[Dustbak]

I have owned several Manfrotto and Gitzo tripods. The Manfrotto is pretty good but simply not up to par with the Gitzo's I have owned. I currently have the 3540XLS which (I think) is the largest. It goes to 2m but I don't use a center column which might be the thing you need to go to 2m6.

The legs are totally awesome. I have never had a tripod that was this light. However, the thing I like most of my new Gitzo compared to previous ones is the locking system. My hands have been kind of ruined by playing baseball for many years and the old locking system was horrible for my hands especially in cold weather. The new system allows you to unlock/lock much easier.

[Jack Flesher]

exactly what I'm talking about....
Regarding adjustments to layers, do you have a better way to ROTATE the images so they line up.
Moving left and right is no problem, but when there is any movement the image tends to tilt over to one side, forcing me to figure out the rotation needed to line it up later on in post

Here's my favorite method:

Select the layer you want to adjust position on. Do a CMD/CTRL A (selects that layer). Then set the blend mode of that layer to "Difference" for the reason described above. Then go to Edit>Transform>Rotate.  Now you have a center control point that you can move to change the axis of rotation and a click and drag on your mouse outside the image will rotate the layer.  Best of all, your cursor keys still move the layer laterally or up and down, but your mouse cursor lets you do the rotate.  IOW you can do ALL of the movements in one sweep.  

Advanced note: You can also use Edit>Transform>Skew, Distort or Warp to morph the overall dimensions of that layer to match to the one beneath it in much the same fashion.  In this way, you can "align" images taken from different positions.  A bit of effort to get the hang of, but it works.

Hehehe...  

[Plekto]

Are the wooden kinds better at preventing movement?
I wonder whether the Gitzo carbon fibre tripods will be better than my Manfrotto right now. the largest Gitzo carbon fibre goes up to 2.6m which is pretty darn good....

The only real advantage the wood ones have is mass for not a lot of money, usually(you can find these all over the place at estate sales).  But those little gel isolation pads are the biggest help, IMO.  I could be a bus going by outside or the wind making the building flex or a local subway or whatever.  Some buildings aren't very sable and move around a bit.  Nothing we'd notice, but a camera will.  If you are getting a sort of sideways twisting, then that means you are getting torque somewhere in the equation.  My guess would be that it's either the building itself or something rotating in the camera at the last moment.

http://www.optbinoculars.com/product.aspx?pid=1535
These are the type you'd use with a large telescope tripod.  I have seen smaller ones for about $20 for a portable tripod as well.