Image Use by major newspaper

[MichaelEzra]

Though I am not sure if this question belongs to this particular forum, I wanted to get feedback from the pro-s, who could share correct information.

I was approached by a major newspaper to provide a high resolution image to be printed in a photography showcase section.
We have so far a clear but verbal agreement on how this image will be used.
Do I need to have them sign any documents, a license for this particular image use?
Are there any templates for such documents?

I would greatly appreciate it if anyone who knows exactly how this should be handled correctly, would share this information.

Thanks,

[TMARK]

Though I am not sure if this question belongs to this particular forum, I wanted to get feedback from the pro-s, who could share correct information.

I was approached by a major newspaper to provide a high resolution image to be printed in a photography showcase section.
We have so far a clear but verbal agreement on how this image will be used.
Do I need to have them sign any documents, a license for this particular image use?
Are there any templates for such documents?

I would greatly appreciate it if anyone who knows exactly how this should be handled correctly, would share this information.

Thanks,

They will make you sign their documents.  Just make sure they don't get your copyright forever, which is what they will try.  They will try to get the web and reprint rights for free.  If you want the PR, just do it.  They don't really know how to negotiate.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Are there any templates for such documents?

There is a book on Amazon with form templates: http://www.amazon.com/Business-Legal-Forms...M/dp/158115206X

The last time I was in a similar situation, I sent them an invoice with a note to the effect of: "One-time, non-exclusive editorial publication rights of the electronically submitted image “...” on the cover of the ... magazine. Credit line to read: Copyright © ..."

Hope this helps.

[Morgan_Moore]

Though I am not sure if this question belongs to this particular forum, I wanted to get feedback from the pro-s, who could share correct information.

I was approached by a major newspaper to provide a high resolution image to be printed in a photography showcase section.
We have so far a clear but verbal agreement on how this image will be used.
Do I need to have them sign any documents, a license for this particular image use?
Are there any templates for such documents?

I would greatly appreciate it if anyone who knows exactly how this should be handled correctly, would share this information.

Thanks,

My experience is UK

Newspaper picture desk have to source many images on very tight deadlines

It is all done verbally

They pay what they say

Most papers have low space rates they will always pay those

Should you have a particularly valuble picture the verbal agreement should be made with someone with some clout - the pic ed or deputy pic ed not just one of the kids on the desk

Pretty amazing that even higher exclusive fees are just agreed on the phone

'buy ups' - exclusive interview and picture sets (could be celeb or a someone with a surfing dog) are usually agreed on paper between the 'talent' and the paper

papers do tend to keep images on thier systems and re-use them either at space rate or without paying until you hassle them

going through an agent who watches the papers can therefore be worth it (proper agencies earn their money)

one key to sucess to to make sure your image is heavily captioned in the IPTC field with some conditions

"agreed for single use in Nov08 - should you be planning to re-publish this image you MUST contact the photographer XXX. No distribution to third parties. "

etc

One option is to upload a pic to an agency like alamy and sell thorough them (slow) or for spot news go to an agency simliar to BigPictures who will deal with global mags and papers - some agencies can be slippery - you should have a deal on paper with agencies - for a % not a fixed fee


S

[MichaelEzra]

Thank you very much for all your input!

[revaaron]

welcome to my world and the wonders of sitting in barnes and noble for hours each month pouring over magazines looking for your images or crops of your images.

[MichaelEzra]

Just a followup information on my experience:

At the end this was the most unpleasant business.
The picture desk was quick enough to get the image, verbaly promissing a particular payment, no need for a written contract, a printed copy, a website address under the image, a specific image description.

ALL terms above were violated -
payment is still not received and argued to be 30% less and no more funds left for that issue!
they ran out of printed copies, so not a single one sent as a simple curtesy.
I received an email with non-agreed upon contract terms, saying that I gave them exclusive rights for publishing the image and rights to license to third parties!!!!
This is a fine art image and I marked it in ITPC header as for a single run on a particular day only.
My website address was not printed under the image.
My image description was thrown out and replaced with incorrect information, saying that I reside in the country, I immigrated from 15 years ago!

All this is Sunday Times Magazine, UK

[jing q]

Just a followup information on my experience:

At the end this was the most unpleasant business.
The picture desk was quick enough to get the image, verbaly promissing a particular payment, no need for a written contract, a printed copy, a website address under the image, a specific image description.

ALL terms above were violated -
payment is still not received and argued to be 30% less and no more funds left for that issue!
they ran out of printed copies, so not a single one sent as a simple curtesy.
I received an email with non-agreed upon contract terms, saying that I gave them exclusive rights for publishing the image and rights to license to third parties!!!!
This is a fine art image and I marked it in ITPC header as for a single run on a particular day only.
My website address was not printed under the image.
My image description was thrown out and replaced with incorrect information, saying that I reside in the country, I immigrated from 15 years ago!

All this is Sunday Times Magazine, UK

I feel sorry for you
had something similar to this happen to me also recently
I managed to get $$$ after threatening legal action
next month they printed my images in another magazine without informing me...
bastards will be bastards. learn the lesson, let people know they pull this kind of crap, and never deal with them again

[kaelaria]

Contact an attorney, you will get nowhere at this point.

[terence_patrick]

Contact an attorney, you will get nowhere at this point.

Yes, get an attorney and let's hope you still have any and all email communications (e.g. the email you sent with your photo attached and IPTC info intact). There might be a government office that deals with consumer affairs that you can contact as well. Make sure you have the person's name you dealt with along with all the times you spoke on the phone.

[John Camp]

You know what? Getting an attorney will most likely get you nothing but an attorney's bill. I would send the paper a letter stating who the agreement was with, for how much, and the terms of the contract (rights for use) and simply say that if they violate these terms, then you *will* refer it to an attorney, and please send me a check. Send the letter to the top editor (managing editor, executive editor) and be prepared to talk to him on the phone about it and make nice (compromise.)

Usually, what has happened in these cases, is that some low-level guy who is doing twelve jobs at the same time has overstepped his authority in the name of expediency, and the whole thing has now turned into a pain in everybody's ass. I'd personally write it off as a lesson learned -- you will be taking more photographs, huh? -- and take what money you can get.

If you go screaming off to an attorney, you will probably *never* work again for anybody who hears about it, because people don't want to hear about attorneys. They want people who understand how the system works, and that you either agree to work with it or not. If not, that's usually fine with them, photographers are all over the place. For most newspapers, they could really give a rat's ass whether or not they publish your picture, no matter how good it is. And if you step outside their system, then you've created a lot of problems they just don't have time to deal with.

By the way, I'm not defending what they did -- I'm just saying, that's life when you're dealing with people who have little time for anything but speed. Get used to it or don't do it anymore.

JC

[Juanito]

Welcome to commercial photography! The photography is the easy part. The business will kill you.

I agree that there's no sense in hiring a lawyer. Take what you can get. Next time be sure to get everything in writing with a good set of terms and conditions to back you up. It's all about business practices and procedures. Learn from this experience and it will not have been a waste.

John

[Dustbak]

Good advice above. Putting a laywer on this will definitely mean losing a potential customer and is certainly no guarantuee that you will get money in the end as a net result. I am also not defending the actions of this newspaper, probably indeed some junior person that doesn't know the first thing about how to deal with this.

Put it in a nice letter/email addressed to the head editor. Get him on the phone and start a dialogue. Consider it an opportunity to deepen your relationship with this party so it might generate more sales in the future. I know this seems weird after you feel ripped off by these people but what is a nicer revenge than getting more money out of them? Without having to revert to attorneys, in the end everybody hates those because everybody loses (money).

If after this they still persist in ripping you off you can always decide putting an attorney on it. I am in the luxurious position to be member of a pro photographers association that will mediate in cases like this and if needed has its own lawyers that can help me out. I don't know whether these organizations exist in the US but it might be worth joining if they do.

[roskav]

I saw the pic the other weekend ... and while I have had similar experiences, and think also that the particular section of that magazine has already shown itself to be way off the initial concept... It is good publicity, and you get your name associated with one of your images in thousands of households across the uk and Ireland. (albeit probably resting beside the wc)  If there is any solace to be had after your bad experience this might be it?


Ros

[Juanito]

It is good publicity, and you get your name associated with one of your images in thousands of households across the uk and Ireland.

As a commercial photographer, you'll quickly learn that photo credit means absolutely nothing. No one looks to see who shot a particular image and the people that see the image aren't the people that will buy work from you in the future. When it comes to getting published, it's the cash that matters. Show me the money!

As has been said many times, you can't eat photo credit.

John

[roskav]

hmm I beg to differ.  In my (rapidly shrinking) area of work, Architectural photography, Industry magazines are as good as portfolios in that my clients will always be checking who takes the good images.  I recognise the fact that the publications are going straight to my clients, but with a Sunday mag like that ... it has sucj a wide circulation that it is bound to end up in potential clients paws.  If a client has already heard of you, it re-enforces your brand awareness.


R

[BrianSmith]

Michael,

I've shot for the London Sunday Times in the past and found them to be  fair.

Ask for Andrew Mitchell. For what it's worth, I trust him.

I've always licensed one-time editorial print use. I never ask for their terms - they follow mine. No problems. They pay their bills.

I'm probably hopelessly old school, but I don't believe in web address photo credits.

I hope that helps.