Scaning transparencies - grain or noise?

[spidermike]

I have started scanning my slides using a Epson V700 and am fairly pleased with the results so far. I doubt I will print above A4 from these myself and if I did I would probably go professional for the odd one.

Anyway, how can you tell if the 'noise' on the slide is actual noise or film grain? Or is it down to experience? Does it matter?
Even if it is grain, will noise reduction programs (such as noiseware, noise ninja etc) reduce the appearance of the grain as well? I am presuming it will also compromise detail.

Regards
Mike

[petermacc]

I have started scanning my slides using a Epson V700 and am fairly pleased with the results so far. I doubt I will print above A4 from these myself and if I did I would probably go professional for the odd one.

Anyway, how can you tell if the 'noise' on the slide is actual noise or film grain? Or is it down to experience? Does it matter?
Even if it is grain, will noise reduction programs (such as noiseware, noise ninja etc) reduce the appearance of the grain as well? I am presuming it will also compromise detail.

Regards
Mike

Yes, Mike anything that makes an adjustment to an original will compromise detail in some way. I would suggest using ASF Digital GEM plug in for photoshop as a trial to see if it helps your problem. Basically if you can see the grain in your film with a loupe outside of the pc, if it is only on the screen then it is noise. Epson I have thought is more noisy at scanning slides than a dedicated machine like a Nikon.

[dct123]

Did your scanner come with Silverfast Digital Ice? (I use the 10000xl) If so, and it's the pro version w/expert settings, use the digital ice and multi-scan (up to 16x) settings to minimize grain and noise, and use the GANE setting on the Frame tab for sharpening.

[johnchoy]

Did you try wet scanning ?

[a href=\'index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\']http://www.wetmounting.com/Scans3-BW.html[/a]

[spidermike]

Thank you all

I took the photos about 15 years ago on Fujichrome and cannot remember what the ISO was so do not know if the 'grain' I can see on the screen is expected (though the ISO was probably 100-200 rather than 50 or lower).

dct123 - My scanner came with Silverfast SE which I have just added the free updated, though I am considering upgrading to the Pro version for the multi-scan option.
JohnChoy - thank you for the link. Unfortunately they sysem can only be used for unmounted slides  


Is there any advantage to sharpening in Silverfast? In my simplistic view, I would scan without any settings and batch-sharpen with PSE. Given all the heated discussion around RAW vs JPEG I was imagining you want to get the unadulterated TIFF from the scanner and do it all in Photoshop.
Or can Silverfast do things that would be difficult to achieve in PSE?

[Mark D Segal]

The full professional edition of Silverfast is an excellent program once you get on top of the maddening features of its arcane interface and poor quality documentation. It is definitely worthwhile maximizing image quality to the extent you can with Silverfast at the scan stage. This makes your subsequent adjustments in Photoshop much easier to deal with, and particularly for severe exposure problems, where I have been able to rescue images using Silverfast prior to scanning, which would not have been possible if the original mess were scanned with no adjustments and opened in Photoshop "as is".

[NigelC]

You don't need to go to "Pro" version (do you mean Studio). SE Plus has that facility and is a good compromise between cost and facilities if yoiu don't need to use IT8 targets and batch scan

[NigelC]

You don't need to go to "Pro" version (do you mean Studio). SE Plus has that facility and is a good compromise between cost and facilities if yoiu don't need to use IT8 targets and batch scan

Sorry, I meant SE Plus has multi-scanning, but I think how effective it is depends on your hardware

[Mark D Segal]

Yes I mean "Studio". the website tells cutsomers the differences of features between the versions so one picks according to what one needs. I've never used on SE version because my scanner didn't come with. I just bought the whole shebang, because for a Minolta Dimage Scane Elite the price was not too outrageous.

[dct123]

Sorry, I meant the SilverFast Ai Studio version..not SilverFast Pro. (I almost mistakenly upgraded to the DC Pro version)

Re.: Grain/noise there's no difference if it's objectionable to you. The same method is used to minimize both.

BTW: Ai also can be installed as a plug-in for Photoshop CS4, accessed via File/Import/SilverFast 32-bit/(choose scanner)

[johnchoy]

Another way to work is to scan using silverfast SE ( cheaper option ) to 48 bit HDR ( raw scan ), then extract the raw using silverfast HDR ( that's the expensive one ).

Working this way multiple images for further HDR  will make sense and possible because of time saving. Moreover HDR together w/ silverfast SE multi scaniing can extract the most out of film.

I think silverfast SE is enough................. the most crucial one is silverfast HDR.

[Ken Bennett]

It's film grain. I am always amazed when I go back and scan 35mm film -- especially "fine grained" 100-speed transparency films -- and see just how much film grain we used to think was normal.

[johnchoy]

It's film grain. I am always amazed when I go back and scan 35mm film -- especially "fine grained" 100-speed transparency films -- and see just how much film grain we used to think was normal.

then u should try HDR method. Enfuse of HDR really heal grains to a certain extent.