Topic: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta and HP APS (Read 6832 times)

Jim Sanderson · « **on:** November 12, 2008, 04:10:43 pm »

Has anyone tried to profile Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta with HP's APS yet? I have a HP Z3200ps 24" printer. I couldn't profile Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta 325 ml. with the APS system and, after a long drawn out process, found that there is a software glitch between APS and the ICC profile downloaded from Hahnemuhle for that paper. Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Matte works fine though. I'm thinking about trying the Photo Rag Baryta, but I don't want to have the same problem I have with the the Fine Art Baryta. Thanks,

Jim

Colorwave · « **Reply #1 on:** November 12, 2008, 04:38:39 pm »

No first hand experience for me yet, Jim. I have my first trial roll coming this Friday. I'm not sure I understand the problem, though. Did you only download the profile from Hahnemuhle after failing with APS? My plan was to use HP's paper preset for their own Baryta paper, then profile the PR Baryta with APS. Did APS somehow fail to build a custom profile for you, or were you trying to use the stock profile and found that APS somehow interfered with that process? So far, I thought the only balky substrates that APS struck out with were extremely glossy canvases.

stevenf · « **Reply #2 on:** November 12, 2008, 05:08:17 pm »

Ron

I am curious what are the HP presets for the HP Bartyr paper for the z3100.

Steven

Jim Sanderson · « **Reply #3 on:** November 12, 2008, 05:42:22 pm »

Quote from: Colorwave

No first hand experience for me yet, Jim. I have my first trial roll coming this Friday. I'm not sure I understand the problem, though. Did you only download the profile from Hahnemuhle after failing with APS? My plan was to use HP's paper preset for their own Baryta paper, then profile the PR Baryta with APS. Did APS somehow fail to build a custom profile for you, or were you trying to use the stock profile and found that APS somehow interfered with that process? So far, I thought the only balky substrates that APS struck out with were extremely glossy canvases.

I'm not sure you're plan would work. I downloaded the ICC profile for the Hahnemuhle paper from the Hahnemule website and saved it as a preset before profiling in APS. You can also down load the ICC profile for that paper from the HP website. It's the same profile, I believe. I don't believe it's the same ICC profile as the "HP Fine Art Baryta" you're talking about on HP's website. I posted in more detail in answer to another post "APS won't profile" on this forum. Take a look there as to my, and another's problem, with APS and Hahnemuhle ICC profiles.

Basically, there is, according to HP, an incompatability between the ICC profile supplied by Hahnemuhle with the APS software so that APS can't profile using APS with the Fine Art Baryta. There isn't with respect to Photo Rag Matte. That profiles fine with APS. I'd sure be interested to know if the Photo Rag Baryta has any problems with profiling with APS after downloading the ICC profile for Photo Rag Baryta and then profiling with APS. Please let us know.

Thanks,

Jim

Colorwave · « **Reply #4 on:** November 12, 2008, 09:45:22 pm »

stevenf-

I'm not at work now to check what the various parameters are, but the paper presets are on the HP site as a part of the new Fine Art paper profile/paper preset downloads. Here is where the ones for my machine, a 44" PS model on an OS 10.5 system are:
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechS...Item=pl-60688-2

Jim-

As I understand it, the downloads referenced above are both a paper preset and a paper profile. I don't think the starting point for profiling a new paper is the same as a full ICC profile. I may understand in incorrectly, but my methodology is to install the paper preset from HP that I want to begin with. I create a new paper in the custom paper list with the name I choose, and tell the printer to change the loaded paper to the newly named paper. The new paper is assigned a paper preset in the process, which determines head height, ink levels, GE settings, and a few other variables. This is only locking in those parameters, not locking in a color look up table yet. You can even fool the printer and assign a completely different paper preset than what is loaded if you want to change the variables from the stock suggestions.

Once I have a new paper type and the printer knows that it is loaded, I move from the HP Printer Utility to APS and tell it to calibrate, and then profile the new paper. When that is done, I name my profile and tell it to load it in the printer and on my system. Once that process is complete, I sometimes test the new profile against a canned one, from HP or the manufacturer, but this only affects how Photoshop renders the file for printing. APS is long out of the loop and not even running anymore, so there isn't anything to crash or complain.

I could be wrong, and the full ICC profile could be utilized in the initial process within the Printer Utility, but I know the process is one that works for me nonetheless. I think that the similarities with HP's new Barite paper are enought that I will start the profiling process there (similar receptive coating and weight, although Hahnemuhle's is a little heavier), but it is about a half hour process to start over with another one if I'm not happy with the results.

Is my workflow different from yours?

William Morse · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2008, 12:22:27 am »

It sounds like there is a confusion of terms here. A profile downloaded from Hahn. or anywhere else, is irrelevant to APS- it just doesn't compute, so to speak. On the other hand, if it is a preset, I suppose that might lead to problems, though I don't really see how. In any event, starting with something like the HP baryte preset, and linearizing and profiling, would be what I would do. I don't have this paper yet, so I can't try it myself.

Frankly, it sounds like the OP got off on the wrong foot somehow, and then the issue was confused by HP "support", since as I said, the whole thing just doesn't compute.

To the OP- what happens when you create a new custom preset based on HP Baryte, then linearize and profile in APS?

Bill

Quote from: Colorwave

stevenf-

I'm not at work now to check what the various parameters are, but the paper presets are on the HP site as a part of the new Fine Art paper profile/paper preset downloads. Here is where the ones for my machine, a 44" PS model on an OS 10.5 system are:
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechS...Item=pl-60688-2

Jim-

As I understand it, the downloads referenced above are both a paper preset and a paper profile. I don't think the starting point for profiling a new paper is the same as a full ICC profile. I may understand in incorrectly, but my methodology is to install the paper preset from HP that I want to begin with. I create a new paper in the custom paper list with the name I choose, and tell the printer to change the loaded paper to the newly named paper. The new paper is assigned a paper preset in the process, which determines head height, ink levels, GE settings, and a few other variables. This is only locking in those parameters, not locking in a color look up table yet. You can even fool the printer and assign a completely different paper preset than what is loaded if you want to change the variables from the stock suggestions.

Once I have a new paper type and the printer knows that it is loaded, I move from the HP Printer Utility to APS and tell it to calibrate, and then profile the new paper. When that is done, I name my profile and tell it to load it in the printer and on my system. Once that process is complete, I sometimes test the new profile against a canned one, from HP or the manufacturer, but this only affects how Photoshop renders the file for printing. APS is long out of the loop and not even running anymore, so there isn't anything to crash or complain.

I could be wrong, and the full ICC profile could be utilized in the initial process within the Printer Utility, but I know the process is one that works for me nonetheless. I think that the similarities with HP's new Barite paper are enought that I will start the profiling process there (similar receptive coating and weight, although Hahnemuhle's is a little heavier), but it is about a half hour process to start over with another one if I'm not happy with the results.

Is my workflow different from yours?

Jim Sanderson · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2008, 01:26:49 am »

Quote from: Colorwave

stevenf-

I'm not at work now to check what the various parameters are, but the paper presets are on the HP site as a part of the new Fine Art paper profile/paper preset downloads. Here is where the ones for my machine, a 44" PS model on an OS 10.5 system are:
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechS...Item=pl-60688-2

Jim-

As I understand it, the downloads referenced above are both a paper preset and a paper profile. I don't think the starting point for profiling a new paper is the same as a full ICC profile. I may understand in incorrectly, but my methodology is to install the paper preset from HP that I want to begin with. I create a new paper in the custom paper list with the name I choose, and tell the printer to change the loaded paper to the newly named paper. The new paper is assigned a paper preset in the process, which determines head height, ink levels, GE settings, and a few other variables. This is only locking in those parameters, not locking in a color look up table yet. You can even fool the printer and assign a completely different paper preset than what is loaded if you want to change the variables from the stock suggestions.

Once I have a new paper type and the printer knows that it is loaded, I move from the HP Printer Utility to APS and tell it to calibrate, and then profile the new paper. When that is done, I name my profile and tell it to load it in the printer and on my system. Once that process is complete, I sometimes test the new profile against a canned one, from HP or the manufacturer, but this only affects how Photoshop renders the file for printing. APS is long out of the loop and not even running anymore, so there isn't anything to crash or complain.

I could be wrong, and the full ICC profile could be utilized in the initial process within the Printer Utility, but I know the process is one that works for me nonetheless. I think that the similarities with HP's new Barite paper are enought that I will start the profiling process there (similar receptive coating and weight, although Hahnemuhle's is a little heavier), but it is about a half hour process to start over with another one if I'm not happy with the results.

Is my workflow different from yours?

Nope, same workflow.

Ernst Dinkla · « **Reply #7 on:** November 13, 2008, 06:15:56 am »

Quote from: Jim Sanderson

Has anyone tried to profile Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta with HP's APS yet? I have a HP Z3200ps 24" printer. I couldn't profile Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta 325 ml. with the APS system and, after a long drawn out process, found that there is a software glitch between APS and the ICC profile downloaded from Hahnemuhle for that paper. Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Matte works fine though. I'm thinking about trying the Photo Rag Baryta, but I don't want to have the same problem I have with the the Fine Art Baryta. Thanks,

Jim

Jim,

If you throw out the Hahnemühle ICC profile, from the printer's HD+ the other systems where it may hide then it can't interfere. Not that I see a way how it could interfere with APS but that's another thing.

If you then take a suitable HP media preset and rename that to make a custom one (and possibly alter the ink limitation, drying time, gloss enhancer, in the process), calibrate the new media preset on the HM Photorag Baryta and after that make an APS custom ICC profile (there will be no other ICC profile used to create the target in the normal APS workflow + the integrated spectrometer measurements). In any case there can not be any influence of the HM ICC profile that isn't in the total system anymore. Not on the created profiel and not on the APS software. Using APS to create the profile indicates that you do not need the HM profile for printing.

Could it be that you tried to edit the Hahnemühle delivered ICC profile in APS and that that doesn't work ?

On the confusion about Media Presets and ICC Profiles there have been some documents where the term Media Profile was used instead of Media Preset but in this list Media Preset is the common term. The only thing I find in the Z3100 and Z2100 maps at HM's site are ICC profiles created with Logo software and no media presets. The media preset instructions are in separate PDF files which are all the same as far as I can see. Do you and HP think that HM's recommended Media Preset isn't right ?

Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

Jim Sanderson · « **Reply #8 on:** November 14, 2008, 07:00:56 pm »

[quote name='Ernst Dinkla' date='Nov 13 2008, 03:15 AM' post='236640'
Jim,

If you throw out the Hahnemühle ICC profile, from the printer's HD+ the other systems where it may hide then it can't interfere. Not that I see a way how it could interfere with APS but that's another thing.

If you then take a suitable HP media preset and rename that to make a custom one (and possibly alter the ink limitation, drying time, gloss enhancer, in the process), calibrate the new media preset on the HM Photorag Baryta and after that make an APS custom ICC profile (there will be no other ICC profile used to create the target in the normal APS workflow + the integrated spectrometer measurements). In any case there can not be any influence of the HM ICC profile that isn't in the total system anymore. Not on the created profiel and not on the APS software. Using APS to create the profile indicates that you do not need the HM profile for printing.

Could it be that you tried to edit the Hahnemühle delivered ICC profile in APS and that that doesn't work ?

On the confusion about Media Presets and ICC Profiles there have been some documents where the term Media Profile was used instead of Media Preset but in this list Media Preset is the common term. The only thing I find in the Z3100 and Z2100 maps at HM's site are ICC profiles created with Logo software and no media presets. The media preset instructions are in separate PDF files which are all the same as far as I can see. Do you and HP think that HM's recommended Media Preset isn't right ?

Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url
[/quote

Yep, tried that. Didn't use the ICC profile from Hahnemuhle at all. Didn't use the HP printer utlitly at all, just APS. Same result with APS. The printer rejectied the generated profile for Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta paper. Not so with the Photo Rag Matte though. That worked fine. Just won't use Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta any more.

Jim

Colorwave · « **Reply #9 on:** November 14, 2008, 07:13:14 pm »

Quote from: Jim Sanderson

Yep, tried that. Didn't use the ICC profile from Hahnemuhle at all. Didn't use the HP printer utlitly at all, just APS. Same result with APS. The printer rejectied the generated profile for Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta paper. Not so with the Photo Rag Matte though. That worked fine. Just won't use Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta any more.
Jim

Jim-
I'm still trying to understand the specifics of your problem. When you say that the printer rejected your generated profile, how so? Did you get an error message when trying to upload it to the printer and your system from APS? Was there a specific error message?

William Morse · « **Reply #10 on:** November 14, 2008, 09:15:08 pm »

Hi Jim-

When you say the printer rejected the profile, when was that? Was it when you were creating the profile in APS, or when you tried to save the generated profile to the printer, or later when you tried to send a file to the printer? Or some other time?

Bill

Quote from: Jim Sanderson

Yep, tried that. Didn't use the ICC profile from Hahnemuhle at all. Didn't use the HP printer utlitly at all, just APS. Same result with APS. The printer rejectied the generated profile for Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta paper. Not so with the Photo Rag Matte though. That worked fine. Just won't use Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta any more.

Jim

Jim Sanderson · « **Reply #11 on:** November 17, 2008, 11:15:29 am »

Quote from: Colorwave

Jim-
I'm still trying to understand the specifics of your problem. When you say that the printer rejected your generated profile, how so? Did you get an error message when trying to upload it to the printer and your system from APS? Was there a specific error message?

Yes, that's what happens. After the whole process is completed, (the charts been printed and read, the profile has been created, saved to the system, a pop up come up saying the printer rejects the profile. Just with the Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta though.

neil snape · « **Reply #12 on:** February 01, 2009, 08:07:12 am »

Quote from: Jim Sanderson

Yes, that's what happens. After the whole process is completed, (the charts been printed and read, the profile has been created, saved to the system, a pop up come up saying the printer rejects the profile. Just with the Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta though.

I actually cannot save any profiles from APS to the Z3200 printer. V2 or V4 makes no difference. LEaving the name of the profile to default, nothing. There is even an error in the Error string look at the word could!

I normally convert in Photoshop or Qimage and have been moving profiles around Mac and Windows but still think there are serious problems in need of fixes.

Not to mention the broken links to support etc.

Author Topic: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta and HP APS (Read 6832 times)