H3DII-31 vs Mamiya AFD III+ Aptus 65s

[Henry Goh]

Looking at these 2 deals, I think they are pretty close now, with Hasselblad costing about $2800 more.  But apart from the cost, what should I be considering also?  I know Hasselblad has higher flash sync speed but Aptus files can be processed in ACR and LR2 whilst H3DII files need Phocus/Flexcolor.  Really, would appreciate your inputs.

As for other brands, please note I'm no longer interested except perhaps Phaseone.

Thanks.

[robert zimmerman]

Looking at these 2 deals, I think they are pretty close now, with Hasselblad costing about $2800 more.  But apart from the cost, what should I be considering also?  I know Hasselblad has higher flash sync speed but Aptus files can be processed in ACR and LR2 whilst H3DII files need Phocus/Flexcolor.  Really, would appreciate your inputs.

As for other brands, please note I'm no longer interested except perhaps Phaseone.

Thanks.

Just my observations...and some obvious bits as well.

Both cameras handle differently.
The Hasselblad is fully integrated and can be controlled from the hand grip. Very DSLR like. The mamiya/Leaf work separately and are controlled separately.

The hassy has one battery for the back and the body, the Mamiya/Leaf two different batteries.

The Files from the Leaf and the Hassy look different and handle color differently - a mater of taste.

The Leaf software is different than Phocus.
LC11 is intuitive and fast, has big previews, everything can be preset.
Phocus has curves, very nice color correction controls and DAC.
Leaf files can be processed directly by ACR, Raw Developer and LR.
Hasselblad files have to be processed to DNG before being processed by ACR or LR.

The Hasselblad can use all C, CF and CFi lenses from the 500 series camera via an adapter. The adapter is excellent and works great.
The Mamiya works directly with all the Mamiya 645 Lenses, without an adapter.

The Aptus Back has a large touchscreen with a low resolution. It's okay for viewing exposure but too rough to judge sharpness.
The Hassy has a large Higher resolution screen. Good for viewing exposure and sharpness. The Hassy also shows a histogram on the grip screen after each shot.

The H3D 31 back can only be used on the H3D Camera.
The Leaf back can be used on an RZ67  or on a view camera via an adapter.

Hope this helps.

[Henry Goh]

Thank you Kipling.

Would you know if CF lenses diaphragm on the H3DII (using adapter) are fully open automatically after each shot?  I know they will need manual focus of course.

[jecxz]

You should also consider which OS you're using. If you're Mac then you have Phocus, if you are PC, you will be using FlexColor (FC) until Hasselblad releases Phocus PC.

Regarding Phocus PC, it is nearly ready for release, but if you have to work with FC you should be prepared for a shock. FC is good a software, just difficult to learn. Again, if you are Mac, you'll move straight to Phocus.

Many, myself included, are using Phocus and bypassing ACR completely. I find that Phocus is enough for me and outputs a TIF that needs very little color edits in PS.

I seriously suggest you work with the software of both brands to determine which you will be comfortable with. Make sure you demo the software on appropriate equipment - I've heard someone tell me a dealer showed him Phocus or FC on a slow computer and it really turned him off. Also if you shoot tethered, check out the software in that respect too.

Good luck.

Kind regards,
Derek

[Henry Goh]

Thank you Derek.

You have made very good suggestions for me to check out.  Grateful for that.

[routlaw]

The H3D 31 back can only be used on the H3D Camera.
The Leaf back can be used on an RZ67  or on a view camera via an adapter.

Hope this helps.

Not true, you can use any of the H3D's on a view camera however you do not have power unless you either buy the Image Bank HD with battery supply or do one of the work arounds with some fire wire connector and Sony NiHD battery. I also believe there are H series adaptors for use with other setups like the Cambo WS cameras. However its my understanding you do give up some functionality by not being connected to the H3D camera.

Hope this helps.

Rob

[yaya]

Just my observations...and some obvious bits as well.

Both cameras handle differently.
The Hasselblad is fully integrated and can be controlled from the hand grip. Very DSLR like. The mamiya/Leaf work separately and are controlled separately.

The hassy has one battery for the back and the body, the Mamiya/Leaf two different batteries.

The Files from the Leaf and the Hassy look different and handle color differently - a mater of taste.

The Leaf software is different than Phocus.
LC11 is intuitive and fast, has big previews, everything can be preset.
Phocus has curves, very nice color correction controls and DAC.
Leaf files can be processed directly by ACR, Raw Developer and LR.
Hasselblad files have to be processed to DNG before being processed by ACR or LR.

The Hasselblad can use all C, CF and CFi lenses from the 500 series camera via an adapter. The adapter is excellent and works great.
The Mamiya works directly with all the Mamiya 645 Lenses, without an adapter.

The Aptus Back has a large touchscreen with a low resolution. It's okay for viewing exposure but too rough to judge sharpness.
The Hassy has a large Higher resolution screen. Good for viewing exposure and sharpness. The Hassy also shows a histogram on the grip screen after each shot.

The H3D 31 back can only be used on the H3D Camera.
The Leaf back can be used on an RZ67  or on a view camera via an adapter.

Hope this helps.

Kipling/ Henry a few minor bits:

LCDs both have the same resolution at 230,400. One should put them side by side at 1:1 magnification with/ without sharpening to appreciate the differences

Base iso of 50 vs 100 might make a difference for some

View cameras (especially with wide angles) compatibility with regards to colour casts and focus falloff - worth testing

Capture rate and buffer when tethered or to a CF card

Custom presets can be loaded to CF cards

Moire reduction and lens cast/ vignetting corrections can be embedded in the RAW files - good for archiving and re-purposing

Mamiya lenses relatively affordable, reliable and easy + cheap to repair

Trade-in path

Yair

[Henry Goh]

Thanks Yair for the details provided.  Is the Aptus 65S discontinued?  I can't locate this model on your web site.

[Henry Goh]

Aptus 65 doesn't have microlenses, good if you need to use a view camera.

Thanks Alan.  Good point.

[klane]

Thanks Alan.  Good point.

Yeah the new model is the Aptus II 6

[Henry Goh]

Great first hand feedback John.  Thanks.

One of my key dislike with Mamiya is the sync speed otherwise it would have been easier to decide.
As to using my older C & CF lenses, both platforms seem to be equal with their adapters.

Thanks John.

[yaya]

Thanks Yair for the details provided.  Is the Aptus 65S discontinued?  I can't locate this model on your web site.

Yes it was replaced by the Aptus-II 6 adding a brighter, better screen and Live Video that does not require a dongle.

Cheers

yair

[mcfoto]

Looking at these 2 deals, I think they are pretty close now, with Hasselblad costing about $2800 more.  But apart from the cost, what should I be considering also?  I know Hasselblad has higher flash sync speed but Aptus files can be processed in ACR and LR2 whilst H3DII files need Phocus/Flexcolor.  Really, would appreciate your inputs.

As for other brands, please note I'm no longer interested except perhaps Phaseone.

Thanks.

Hi
(speed) Mamiya DL28 1.0 f/s vrs H3D31 1.2 f/s. Plus LC11 is brilliant!
Denis

[Dustbak]

One thing in the comparison that is easily overlooked. The Aptus histogram & exposure indication is absolutely gorgeous and the best I have ever seen. I wish Hasselblad would have the same. The touch screen and the possibility to pick white balance with the stylus pen is really nice in use.

The Hasselblad has DAC going for it which is really helpful if you need straightlines/ no distortion. The sync speed of 1/800th is really nice. The Hasselblad file is also very good and you can easily up 2 stops in post while still getting good results effectively giving the Hasselblad an ISO3200.

The dual battery system vs single battery can be either an advantage or a disadvantage. The disadvantage being way less exposure, the advantage only 1 charger, battery system and less bulky.

I also find the build quality of the Leaf somewhat nice than the Hasselblad. The Hasselblad (back) is smaller and more compactly build.

Personally having owned both and at one time owning both (CF instead of H3D) I find it a very difficult choice. Both have some unique features going for them. I would not mind using either one of them. I currently use Hasselblad due to various reasons, dealer, adapter plates, multishot, etc. but I could see an A65s in the future for use on my Digiflex (if it comes by attractively priced naturally).

I am pretty sure you can get the Hasselblad for a price that is closer to the Leaf/Mamiya combination if you press a little

[Henry Goh]

Thank you Dustbak.  All those pointers you listed are valuable!

Indeed I'm talking to Hasselblad to see if I can get a better deal on this.

Thanks.

[robert zimmerman]

Thank you Kipling.

Would you know if CF lenses diaphragm on the H3DII (using adapter) are fully open automatically after each shot?  I know they will need manual focus of course.

You have to manualyy cock the lens with a small lever. It's very easy and fast.

ISO was also mentioned. I'm not sure about the A65+, I owned a A22, but my H3DII 31 does usuable 800 ISO.

A lot of differences to think about  

[Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS]

Henry

I have a few items to add for Hasselblad.

- One manufacturer for Body, Digital Magazine, software, firmware, support
- Single source power supply, 7.2v lithium ion rechargeable battery powers both camera and digital magazine
- Phocus software is free with frequent updates
- A complete system: 10 HC/HCD lenses from 28mm to 300mm, 35-90mm HCD will be available in Q1.  3 extension tubes, HTS 1.5 (Tilt/shift), 1.7x tele-converter, GPS module  
   etc.
- CF adapter can be used with 27 Zeiss and 1 Schneider lenses, full auto metering and focus confirmation.
- Full control of the H3DII from Phocus, Auto and Manual focus, Aperture and Shutter speed, Metering modes, Program modes, Exposure compensation, Mirror up, Live video
- Firmware updating from Flexcolor and Phocus for digital magazine and H3DII body.
- DAC (Digital Auto Corrections) - 3 levels: Chromatic Aberration  Distortion and vignetting.
- 3" display
- Double tap of the shutter release button will display the Menu on the digital magazine and you can now use the control wheels on the H grip to navigate through the back Menu's  
  (very nice feature, I use this all the time)
- Digital magazine can be used on a view camera, Rollei lens control and Schneider shutter control can be utilized.

That's all for now ...

Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA

[David Grover / Capture One]

As to using my older C & CF lenses, both platforms seem to be equal with their adapters.

Thanks John.

I am not sure if this is true Henry...

Check that on the Mamiya you get...

Focus Confirmation
Automatic stop down of the lens to the working aperture
Metering

Best,


David

[Henry Goh]

Thanks Paul and David.

I think since the CF adapter allows metering and auto shutter, I'm now more inclined to move back to H3DII.  I still have 3 CF lenses and a SWC903 (but this one does not benefit does it?).  I can then take a bit of time and then decide which HCD/HC lenses I should buy.  I'm talking to my local Hasselblad guy right now and hopefully I can make a good decision soon.  Thanks.

Seems to me Leaf makes good backs but the weak point is Mamiya.  I suppose the same goes for Phase One.  Of course there's AFi system but that puts such a premium onto the whole kit that I won't even consider it.

Invariably, H3D seems to be the better option, in my case although I've held back for so long because I wanted to continue using Capture One Pro.  I guess I just have to be patient with Phocus from now on and have faith that it will get even better.  After all, Phase One made such a blunder by launching a bug filled V4 Pro when V3.7.9 was already much loved.

Thanks to all that help guide me on this thread.

[stewarthemley]

Hi Henry

As you seem to edging towards the Hass route I'll just chip in and say that Phocus is really easy to understand and use and gets terrific results. The DAC controls are just great. Presets are easy to make and apply and you can get any look you want pretty quickly. Hasselblad constantly upgraded Flexcolor and seem committed to doing the same with Phocus - along with frequent camera firmware updates. Good luck with your choice.