Leaf AFi-10 in action

[thsinar]

before it was decided which system shall be used to "frame" and indicate on the ground-glass the orientation, we did a survey. 90% of the photographers asked choose the semi-transparent acetate.

This being said, I do prefer myself as well the solution with the black covering mask, like in the Sinar arTec.

There is no problem and there should not be a great deal to propose both.

Best regards,
Thierry

yes i agree. with my artec i do exactly this. sinar provides some thin black alu frames which are exactly the sensor size. they are magentic and i turn them round if i change the sensor orientation. i like it much more than formerly with the gottschalt where i have had both orientations in one. maybe sinar and leaf shpould think about this detail, does not sound too hard to make here a solution as you are recommending.

[gwhitf]

Much of this comes down to the style of your own work, and your shooting style. I could see that these masks were GREAT for Rainer, if he's shooting architecture, and he's locked down on a tripod with a non-moving subject, spending many minutes on one shot.

But for a people shooter, on location, where you're using the medium format more like a 35, I could not imagine the thought of those masks. Maybe there is another solution. But any real solution would have to be super-fast and almost invisible to the camera operator.

[BJNY]

gw,

The solution is to have two complete setups,
one for vertical, and another for horizontal.

[rethmeier]

I did a quick test.
If the 90% viewer is mounted on the Hy6,you can change the grip to a setting where is very easy to turn the camera on it's side.
A bit like shooting with the Contax,H3,Mamiya's.

Best of both worlds.

Cheers,
Willem.


Also,don't most guys shoot tethered anyway.
Easy to see wether the back is horizontal or portrait.

[gwhitf]

I found the 90 degree finder to be much preferable over the 45.

The 90 magnifies the image more; it's a completely different experience than the 45.

The only downside of the 90 finder is that it has that noticeable womp/distortion, similar to the H1 finder. Curvy; not straight lines. Still, even with that, I'd still use the 90 over the 45 or the WL.

[rethmeier]

gwhitf

I just heard from Thierry that the first samples of the 90 degree finder are arriving.
Maybe you looked through a pre production model?

I would hope for $2100 AUD you would get something decent without distortion.

Cheers,

Willem.


N.B $2100 is not the final price

[shutay]

For my 2cents worth about the whole orientation indication...

I have recently shot about 250 shots on a Hy6-e75r and I have to say that I personally did not have any issues with the existing viewfinder mask, and it did not pose a problem at any moment. In fact, I have not even considered that the existing masking might be a problem for some until I read this thread. I have been shooting a combination of handheld and on tripod, in both cases, I have shot tethered and untethered, people and objects. I do not have any frames which I expected to come out one way but mistakenly shot it in a different orientation. I guess the bottom line is that "your mileage may vary". Would it be really COOL to have automatic electronic masking (like the 4:5 masking on the Nikon D3)? Sure it would, but I guess that would have added to R&D costs, final pricing, delivery timescale, etc.

Maybe for version 2.

I normally shoot a square sensor on a square viewfinder and I imagine the rectangular cropping I will use later.

shutay

[bcooter]

gw,

The solution is to have two complete setups,
one for vertical, and another for horizontal.

that's what I do with the canons.  one has a 4:3 black mask for vertical, one is traditional 2:3 for horizontal and we have the main lenses duplicated.

it's a lot faster than stopping and rotating anything, an assistant just hands me a camera, ready to go and two mark 3's and lenses are less than any medium format solution with back up.

the vertical camera gets less use since 75% of everything I'm commissioned to shoot is horizontal anyway.

I think medium format is fine if you have a lot of time and a lot of studio light, but I'd love to see one of these tests that everyone keeps showing from a real paying high pressured advertising project.

we are in the new economy of advertising and clients are all talking realism, beautiful imaging, interactivity and they want it all and they want it fast.

I would love to see any of the new cameras with window light, hmi's, on ferry's, or cars in the middle of times square with 6,000 onlookers in the way, 12 clients and a huge chunk of money on the line, or shooting fast where you have a crew of 20 you have to move across a major metro city to three locations in one day.

or even editorial where the "stars" catering cost more than the lighting and your given 9 minutes to get the shot.  

I would also like to know how quickly you can get  a replacement for any of these cameras everyplace in the world.

I blew out a sensor in one of my mark III's in asia this week.  probably got water in it or took a hit I don't know, but canon fixed it in 6 hours.

if your shooting locked down in the studio for a real beauty campaign then medium format is fine, but on location, where there are a dozen clients and two art directors they want their shot, they want it beautiful and they want it now.  they are going back to rooms full of dozens of committees and whatiffers, and they have no room for excuses and in those meetings pixel count doesn't mean near as much as getting that one compelling shot they all had burned into their brain months before the project begins.

horses for courses.  I hear that all the time, but get real it's not about the camera it's about getting the shot and being secure in getting the shot and having backups.

it's also not about the costs of the cameras.  give us a $40,000 camera that does everything and does it without silly workarounds like taking a finder off and flipping a black mask and a lot of us will spend the money, but if your a professional photographer at any pay grade you are now living in a no excuses world.  

medium format seems to be fine as long as the world is sunny and bright but be clear, nobody spends a lot of money on photography and gives you a sunny and bright world.   they may want the photograph to look sunny and bright but they want it regardless of the conditions.

in today's economy the expectations are beyond huge  and the shoot briefs are almost impossible but nobody that hires you cares if the shot list is impossible.  they want it, or they go to the next guy.

I am amazed that two years after introduction sinar is finally releasing the 90 degree finder or phase has finally bounced out a pro version of 4.5., with issues.    medium format can and will do business anyway they want, but looking at the software issues, the time for delivery, price structures that would confuse a harvard mba, I don't get it and would never rest my reputation on some of these new cameras and software. not without them being on the market for a long time.

I can't imagine what would have happened if I had shoot tethered to 4.5 and then had to tell a client , oops, gotta go back to los angeles because the software trashed the files, or if I needed a 35mm wide angle and it just didn't exist for my camera.  what do you tell a client, sorry but I'm waiting for the lens to show up, maybe in a year or two?

this forum is good but has more digital maker/digital dealer/photographer relationships than a soap opera and until I see something that was done where the only agenda is to get the shot beautifully and get paid by an advertising or editorial client, then all of it is just nice samples of eyelash detail.

[SecondFocus]

Very impressive Frank, and wonderful photos!

[AndreNapier]

that's what I do with the canons.  one has a 4:3 black mask for vertical, one is traditional 2:3 for horizontal and we have the main lenses duplicated.

it's a lot faster than stopping and rotating anything, an assistant just hands me a camera, ready to go and two mark 3's and lenses are less than any medium format solution with back up.

the vertical camera gets less use since 75% of everything I'm commissioned to shoot is horizontal anyway.

I think medium format is fine if you have a lot of time and a lot of studio light, but I'd love to see one of these tests that everyone keeps showing from a real paying high pressured advertising project.

we are in the new economy of advertising and clients are all talking realism, beautiful imaging, interactivity and they want it all and they want it fast.

I would love to see any of the new cameras with window light, hmi's, on ferry's, or cars in the middle of times square with 6,000 onlookers in the way, 12 clients and a huge chunk of money on the line, or shooting fast where you have a crew of 20 you have to move across a major metro city to three locations in one day.

or even editorial where the "stars" catering cost more than the lighting and your given 9 minutes to get the shot.  

I would also like to know how quickly you can get  a replacement for any of these cameras everyplace in the world.

I blew out a sensor in one of my mark III's in asia this week.  probably got water in it or took a hit I don't know, but canon fixed it in 6 hours.

if your shooting locked down in the studio for a real beauty campaign then medium format is fine, but on location, where there are a dozen clients and two art directors they want their shot, they want it beautiful and they want it now.  they are going back to rooms full of dozens of committees and whatiffers, and they have no room for excuses and in those meetings pixel count doesn't mean near as much as getting that one compelling shot they all had burned into their brain months before the project begins.

horses for courses.  I hear that all the time, but get real it's not about the camera it's about getting the shot and being secure in getting the shot and having backups.

it's also not about the costs of the cameras.  give us a $40,000 camera that does everything and does it without silly workarounds like taking a finder off and flipping a black mask and a lot of us will spend the money, but if your a professional photographer at any pay grade you are now living in a no excuses world.  

medium format seems to be fine as long as the world is sunny and bright but be clear, nobody spends a lot of money on photography and gives you a sunny and bright world.   they may want the photograph to look sunny and bright but they want it regardless of the conditions.

in today's economy the expectations are beyond huge  and the shoot briefs are almost impossible but nobody that hires you cares if the shot list is impossible.  they want it, or they go to the next guy.

I am amazed that two years after introduction sinar is finally releasing the 90 degree finder or phase has finally bounced out a pro version of 4.5., with issues.    medium format can and will do business anyway they want, but looking at the software issues, the time for delivery, price structures that would confuse a harvard mba, I don't get it and would never rest my reputation on some of these new cameras and software. not without them being on the market for a long time.

I can't imagine what would have happened if I had shoot tethered to 4.5 and then had to tell a client , oops, gotta go back to los angeles because the software trashed the files, or if I needed a 35mm wide angle and it just didn't exist for my camera.  what do you tell a client, sorry but I'm waiting for the lens to show up, maybe in a year or two?

this forum is good but has more digital maker/digital dealer/photographer relationships than a soap opera and until I see something that was done where the only agenda is to get the shot beautifully and get paid by an advertising or editorial client, then all of it is just nice samples of eyelash detail.

With so much pressure on your shoulders and time being so valuable you surely have a lot of time to write over and over of how wrong our choices are. It seems that even in the mids of the biggest campaign the first thing you do when you hit the hotel is log to LL and praise your Canons. You see,  poor us we have to entertain our clients and AD's and than process our Raws to get the jpgs for the next morning so they use us again instead of the guy who has the jpgs straight from his camera.
Andre