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Author Topic: Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison  (Read 13704 times)

jing q

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« on: November 04, 2008, 06:24:54 am »

after coming across abit of the mention of Zeiss Vs mamiya lenses, I thought I'd do an informal test because I just got in a bunch of F lenses for my Hassy.

The F lenses were mounted on my Mamiya AFdII via an adapter.

All lenses were shot at F8, around 1/40th of a second with mirror up at ISO 50. 1/40th of a second because the light wasn't very good.

comparing the Mamiya 45mm f2.8 AF, Hassy 50mm f2.8 F, Mamiya 55mm f2.8 N/L, Mamiya 55-110mm at 55mm and 77mm(close to 80mm...was abit off there), Mamiya 80mm f2.8 AF, Mamiya 80mm f1.9, and Hassy 80mm f2.8 CF.

Focusing at close distances and close to infinity distances.

caveat: it was very informal so the close focusing of the lenses is not at the exact same point (due to very minute focusing errors). I came to some conclusions for myself after comparing different distances of objects in the same image, rather than just focusing on one single point to see how sharp it was.

my interest is in seeing how each lens renders a whole scene of various distances.

I'll probably focus on posting up the images which were focused to infinity.

If I have the time I would try to be more exact with the focusing next time, and this situation does make me more aware of how a TINY inaccuracy in focusing can be really visible, even at F8.


--------------------------

Things I noted:

The lens performances were so close it was quite astounding really, the older Mamiya lenses held up as well as the AF mamiya lenses, and the Mamiya AF lenses were great performers. the 45mm was so sharp it was scary. the 80mm AF was also super sharp.

The Mamiya AF lenses tended to be more contrasty than the other lenses.The other lenses were less contrasty, which gave a more pleasing image on opening it on ACR. The less contrasty images were easily tweaked to look like the more contrasty images made by the mamiya AF with a simple tweak of the Contrast slider.

The manual lenses were much more fun to focus than the AF lenses. I would consider using my manual lenses more often just to get that smooth silky barrel turning feeling.

The Hassy lenses tended towards a yellow overall tint, the Mamiya lenses were cooler, more greenish.

The 80mm F1.9 lens performs solidly at F8. I haven't tested it wide open or at F2.8 yet but at F8 it

the 55-110mm zoom lens at close to 80mm gives a less contrasty image that has a nice tonality to it. The bokeh was the most pleasing and spherical of the other 80mm lenses (surprisingly!) and has a blueish tinge to its overall rendition compared to the other lenses.

the 80mm CF was the weakest lens in the whole line-up in terms of resolution. Images tended to be more yellowish also.

The "look" of a lens seems to harder to actually describe than I imagined, with a digital sensor. The differences in rendition of bokeh are so subtle that it becomes a non-issue for me.

However, the distortion that is specific to each lens affects the feeling of the image considerably. Layering the 80mm AF image on top of the 80mm F1.9 image shows a noticable difference. Something I didn't really think about too much, but now something that I will look more closely at.

Same for the 55mm f2.8 on top of the 55-110mm at 55mm.

The 55mm f2.8 had less contrast than the 55-110mm. The image has a cooler tonality too. I quite like it. Resolution seems very slightly less than the zoom, which is surprising considering how I never really liked the zoom...

The 55-110mm had more noticable CA at 55mm.

the 50mm Hassy starts to show some loss of resolution at the edges.

The 45mm AF is an amazing performer. I find it abit too contrasty, compared to the other lenses I've been testing, but I can't complain about it after doing all this testing!

Well hope this helps. I'm on a mobile connection right now but I'll upload some pictures when I get back.


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gwhitf

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2008, 08:37:05 am »

Quote from: jing q
All lenses were shot at F8, around 1/40th of a second with mirror up at ISO 50. 1/40th of a second because the light wasn't very good.

You conducted a sharpness test using available light, at 1/40th of a second, with the mirrors not raised...?

Huh?

Let me guess, you didn't even bother to use a tripod too, right?
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smhoer

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2008, 08:44:15 am »

Quote from: gwhitf
You conducted a sharpness test using available light, at 1/40th of a second, with the mirrors not raised...?

Huh?

Let me guess, you didn't even bother to use a tripod too, right?


Gwhitf
You may want to read his post again.  He clearly points out mirror up
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Scott H.
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BJNY

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2008, 09:09:56 am »

Thanks for the GREAT effort, jing q.

Looking forward to seeing the files.
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Guillermo

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2008, 09:15:33 am »

Which back will you use for the test?
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rljones

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2008, 10:35:35 am »

thanks jing for the post.

a couple of years ago, i compared on a Mamiya AFDii, the Hassy 120 macro vs the Mamiya 120 macro on a Leaf 65 back. the resolution was very similar but the striking difference was background bokeh. the Zeiss lens seemed as if it was 1 stop larger than the Mamiya, with DOF of f5.6 similar to f4 on the Mamiya. i too noticed the slight color difference you mention.
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woof75

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2008, 12:01:34 pm »

Quote from: rljones
thanks jing for the post.

a couple of years ago, i compared on a Mamiya AFDii, the Hassy 120 macro vs the Mamiya 120 macro on a Leaf 65 back. the resolution was very similar but the striking difference was background bokeh. the Zeiss lens seemed as if it was 1 stop larger than the Mamiya, with DOF of f5.6 similar to f4 on the Mamiya. i too noticed the slight color difference you mention.

Sounds about right to me. The Mamiya 80mm AF really is an incredible lens. Cheap too. "My" lens is the 35mm AF though which isn't so great but it's with a cropped sensor so at least I don't have the soft corners. It isn't such a bad lens though, it's a hard focal length for all the makers. One good thing about it is it has af to mf switch on the lens barrel via a ring which makes focusing so easy, use af, turn ring to manual focus, done. I don't remember the last time I had an out of focus frame.
Also, with regard to distortion, the new capture one has a great distortion correction tool. Pretty amazing.

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gwhitf

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2008, 12:11:43 pm »

Quote from: smhoer
Gwhitf
You may want to read his post again.  He clearly points out mirror up

Strobe, and in a dark room is bare minimum, to elminate the camera shake issue. 1/40th of a second, using available light, is not a test condition.

But whatever.
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Dale Allyn

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2008, 12:59:05 pm »

jing q took a number of lenses and shot them under circumstances which are described in the post. One can draw whatever conclusions they like for their purposes, but I appreciate the effort and shared info. I see no point in dishing the effort. If it doesn't serve someone's need it can be ignored. It was offered as an "informal" comparison that will likely be useful and/or enjoyable to some.

Thanks for posting what you saw, jing q. I have the Mamiya AF 35, 45, 55, 80, 150, and 210 (ULD) lenses and my experiences are similar to yours vis-a-vis your Mamiya observations regarding sharpness and contrast, except I find my 55 quite sharp as well (very close to my 45). The total cost of the kit was remarkably low for the image quality provided by the lenses. Build isn't great, but serviceable.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2008, 01:00:12 pm by DFAllyn »
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jing q

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2008, 01:04:12 pm »

Quote from: gwhitf
You conducted a sharpness test using available light, at 1/40th of a second, with the mirrors not raised...?

Huh?

Let me guess, you didn't even bother to use a tripod too, right?

I expected this sort of nastiness.
If you don't like it, don't read it ok?
BTW, I don't shoot in a dark room with strobes most of the time. And I'm not interested in that.

First of all let me state that lens testing is more difficult than I expected...in terms of focusing there was some back focusing for some reason with the hasselblad lenses for the closeup shots (which I only discovered after everything was shot of course...haha)

I don't think anyone should take this test too seriously, it was really just something I did because I was curious for myself.

I had some problems with the 110mm and 150mm resolution (flare was pretty bad...), I'm thinking it might have been an error of mine so I'm relooking into it.

The files have been processed with exact same settings in ACR, with sharpening kept at default (strength 25 radius 1.0), so differences in the way the file looks is solely dependent on the way the lens renders the scene.

1/40th of a second is not the best test, but I looked through all the files and did not see any shutter shake (and mirror was up)

still trying to add the attachments but they're taking abit of time to upload strangely..
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jing q

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2008, 01:06:27 pm »

I'm uploading the zip file of the further focusing one to my server.
it should take about half an hour from now to be fully up.
the link is here plus here

if someone will be kind enough to resize them in a way that's easier for people to see that'll be much appreciated..in the meantime here's a very rough resize for your viewing

45mm Mamiya
[attachment=9450:45mamiya.jpg]

50mm Hassy
[attachment=9448:50hassy.jpg]

55mm Mamiya N/L
[attachment=9452:55mamiyamanual.jpg]

55-110mm Mamiya @ 55mm
[attachment=9454:55mamiyazoom.jpg]

55-110mm Mamiya @ 77mm (roughly)
[attachment=9453:80mamiyazoom.jpg]

80mm Mamiya AF
[attachment=9455:80mm_mamiyaAF.jpg]

80mm Mamiya f1.9
[attachment=9449:80mamiya19.jpg]

80mm Hassy
[attachment=9456:80hassy.jpg]
« Last Edit: November 04, 2008, 01:49:56 pm by jing q »
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jing q

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2008, 01:53:19 pm »

Quote from: DFAllyn
jing q took a number of lenses and shot them under circumstances which are described in the post. One can draw whatever conclusions they like for their purposes, but I appreciate the effort and shared info. I see no point in dishing the effort. If it doesn't serve someone's need it can be ignored. It was offered as an "informal" comparison that will likely be useful and/or enjoyable to some.

Thanks for posting what you saw, jing q. I have the Mamiya AF 35, 45, 55, 80, 150, and 210 (ULD) lenses and my experiences are similar to yours vis-a-vis your Mamiya observations regarding sharpness and contrast, except I find my 55 quite sharp as well (very close to my 45). The total cost of the kit was remarkably low for the image quality provided by the lenses. Build isn't great, but serviceable.

Cheers.

my 55mm is the manual version...leaf shutter version. I have to say that the manual feel of the metal barrel is very pleasurable.

On another note, sometimes I find the perspective of the 45mm to feel slightly too distorted for me in certain cases...I was pleasantly surprised by the sense I got from the 55mm lens. If the AF lens is any better I may just get one for the times I feel the need for one...
All this testing made me realise that very subtle differences in each lens does make a big difference in the overall feel of a photo (duh..the digital era had numbed my sensitivity to such things)

One thing I was looking out for also were differences in amount of depth of field at the same focal length and same f-stop....but the differences were negligible.

However my 35mm rodenstock HR lens seems to have amazing depth of field even at f/4 and f/5.6 compared to my 35mm mamiya, and of course the resolution is incredible. That may be one of those false sensations though...something I should test out next time.
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Dale Allyn

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2008, 02:54:58 pm »

I agree about the tactile pleasure of older manual lenses. I've never liked the plastic nature of many modern lenses of many makes.

My 35 is "OK", but not spectacular (I understand this to be consistent with others' observations). I prefer the build of the 35 to the 45 and 55, but the latter lenses are sharper. I've not handled the new 80mm D lens, but look forward to upgrading to its up-graded build quality.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2008, 05:21:47 pm by DFAllyn »
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Guy Mancuso

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2008, 04:31:34 pm »

In regards to some of the Mamiya glass in particular there new D lenses which i find much better build and much better tactical manual focusing. I have three of them and really prefer them over my other Mamiya lenses of course they are more expensive and heavier also . In particular the 28mm is a big lens with a lot of weight, the 150 mm D 2.8 lens is a gem in my book with a nice feel to it bigger and heavier than the slower version but a much better lens . The new 80mm D lens is also very nice and sharp also. I am after the new 45mm D lens when it hits the streets here real soon and may actually sell my 35 and 55 AF which the later lens the 55mm AF is a great lens it does not have manual override on the lens itself and that is something I do not like. I like having that manual switch or push pull to engage manual focusing without going to the body to make a change from C or S to M. Bottom line though i do not feel at all in the slightest inferior to any glass made out there in MF and that says a lot for me since i am a extreme lens whore. So frankly all this chest pumping on some other brands is frankly just BS and marketing, I just ignore many of these claims out there unless someone shows me hard proof to improving my images instead of MTF charts than I will continue in my happy quest on what I have they get the job done extremely well. Also some of the claims on the Mamiya 28mm which i saw some corner issues at times was completely debunked on my last interior job which the images just sing all the way across the frame and this was with a P25 plus size sensor.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2008, 04:36:12 pm by Guy Mancuso »
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Jack Flesher

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2008, 04:54:57 pm »

Quote from: jing q
First of all let me state that lens testing is more difficult than I expected...

It sure is.  Unfortunately, whenever your "result" is not what some people wants to hear, they will do their best to poke holes in every aspect of your test they can, so thick skin is advised if you want to test!  Anyway, my hat off to you for these efforts, as this type of data helps lend credibility to other tests that your findings echo -- and your results do align with other similar ones I have seen  

Cheers,

Jack
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 05:36:17 pm by Jack Flesher »
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hs0zfe

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2008, 09:22:27 am »

Great effort !! thank you for it!

Chris
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Leonardo Barreto

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Hasselblad Zeiss lenses and mamiya lenses comparison
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2008, 01:33:28 pm »

Most photographers I know that document art work shoot with continuous light source and speeds slower than 1/4th of a s. and they are paid to produce the best image possible. So, yes you can shoot without strobes and produce a sharp image. Of course you do need to use a tripod.And also remember that you are comparing lenses under same circumstances -as opposed as shooting Mamiya lenses with flash and the others w/out-
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 01:36:00 pm by Leonardo Barreto »
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