Neutral (grayish) look just directly from MFDB?

[evgeny]

Hi.

I shoot in studio with Contax 645 and Sinarback 54M tethered to MacBook running Sinar CaptureShop 5.x.

First I set white balance using WhiBal White Balance Card and then shoot real scene.

I ALWAYS get very neutral (grayish) look just directly from my 54M. Is this normal?
This is very different from all my Nikon Film and Nikon DSLR experience...

I discussed with Thierry, and he told me to use Curve 3 or custom Curve in CaptureShop. Well I understand MFDB is different from DSLR. So, I tried Curve 3 and that changed neutral look to a dark and saturated, but not real colors or what I want to see. Thierry is very right, but I found that I need to customize curves of EVERY image to see desired colors.

I shoot approx 100 good images in last photo session in studio. I spend four full days in fine turning Custom Curves. This was especially time consuming if subject moves or light schemes change, so curve need be adjusted and not copied. (This makes no advantage to digital comparing to time required to scan one hundred 120 images at 4000 dpi, and I get ready images just directly of film camera...)

I always wanted to ask you, do you also get such neutral (grayish) look directly from your MFDB and how do you effectively post process images or manually fine turn Curves in photoshop?

Thank
--
Evgeny

[Graham Mitchell]

This is due to the high dynamic range of the sensor. A linear response from a HDR sensor will nomally look dull and grey.

It should be easy to add the curve you want to a whole batch of photos.

I export my images as linear 16 bit TIFFs then apply curve layers in Photoshop. This is the ultimate solution for control and quality.

[evgeny]

Graham, thank you!

I expect my CS4 to arrive this week. How do you find proper curve, is there any "rules" to simplify postprocessing work?

[Graham Mitchell]

evgeny, it is a matter of taste so there are no rules, and the workflow also depends on whether all images have the same exposure and content and can be treated as one batch.

[David WM]

Hi Evgeny
When using captureshop I use curve 3 as a starting point and generally bump contrast from there. Yes you do need to work the images but from what you have mentioned it sounds like you might want get some batch processing in PS sorted out unless there is some great variation in your subject matter. What is it that you shoot?  I  try to batch process as much as possible, if only to get me to a closer result overall to reduce time spent per image.
David

[thsinar]

Dear Evgeny,

We had this discussion via PM. I try to explain it again, although it has been said by David and Graham above as well.

A linear curve is what the sensor captures: it looks flat and without any saturation. A contrast curve should be applied, starting from a ... starting point. Therefore I have suggested you to start with the Default Curve 3 in Captureshop. It does not mean that it will be what you like or need, depending on your taste and your light. The next step is to adjust this curve until it matches your light/taste. Then you save this curve and give it a name (e.g. Portrait soft, Portrait xyz, etc ..., since you shoot portraits). This same curve can then be applied to all the images shot (select all the files in the contact sheet and choose this curve from the Process panel ---> "Curve"---> drop down menu at the top right corner of "curve", the curve you have saved appears here now and can be selected/set to all selected images).

This curve can later be used for all shots taken under the same (light/subject) conditions.

When you use a different light character/mood, then you will probably feel the need to create a new curve and ave it the same way.

That's it.

All the best,
Thierry

[evgeny]

Thanks, David and Thierry!

I learn MFDB digital workflow.
I did exactly as Thierry recommended.
I set the Curve 3. Then adjusted curve in CaptureShop and immediately saw the difference.

I learnt from your experience that digital workflow could be:
1. Fine turn curves in CaptureShop to archive a good STI, than finish image in Photoshop.
2. Keep STI "As Is" (Linear or Curve 3), and do ALL adjustments in Photoshop.

My CS4 just arrived!

[Mitchell Baum]

What's "STI"?

Thanks,

 Mitchell

[David WM]

Mitchell,

.sti is the raw file format produced by Sinar Captureshop. The new Sinar software, eXposure, does not use this format anymore, but produces dng which can be processed in eXposure or fed into other dng processors like ACR. I understand that with coming releases of eXposure it will read the STI raw files, which is not currently possible.

regards, David

What's "STI"?

Thanks,

 Mitchell

Evgeny, I think you may want to explore using eXposure and an ACR workflow.

[levinson]

my situation is a reverse of the thread starter.

i started shooting digital way back 2001 with sinarback 23, upgrading to 44h and now with 54m. it's just these last three years that i started shooting with dslr for some location shoots when i think it's risky to bring the digital back on location. i'm so used with the neutral tone and the control i can do with captureshop that i have a hard time achieving it with my nikons. i've had d2x and now the d3.

my workflow with sinarback have not changed since i started with the 23. i start my test shot with standard curve 1 and go down to standard curve 2 if i want less contrast. but most of the time, i used curve 1. i hardly make custom curve because these two standard curves are good for me already. i've never ever tried shooting with curve 3 because i don't like doing pp work with my shoots. for me, it's a waste of time. that's why i will always try to get it right while shooting, which can be easily achieve with mfdb than with dslr.

with the current version of captureshop, it's so easy to set a warm tone or cooler tone image with the color wheel.

in my situation now, i'm still trying to achieve how to improve my dslr shooting without doing pp work. it's because i'm so used to mfdb images that i would like my dslr output to be comparable to mfdb or at least close to it without doing any pp work.

[evgeny]

i started shooting digital way back 2001 with sinarback 23, upgrading to 44h and now with 54m. it's just these last three years that i started shooting with dslr for some location shoots when i think it's risky to bring the digital back on location. i'm so used with the neutral tone and the control i can do with captureshop that i have a hard time achieving it with my nikons. i've had d2x and now the d3.

Hi Levinson.

Do you use Captureshop to shoot tethered with Nikons?
How do you do that?
Thank

[thsinar]

Dear Evgeny,

you misunderstood: Levinson cannot tether his Nikon with Captureshop. He was just saying that it is more easy for him to get a neutral "look" in the Sinar files than with his Nikon, and would wish to b able to do so with hisd slr camera as well without PP.

Best regards,
Thierry

Hi Levinson.

Do you use Captureshop to shoot tethered with Nikons?
How do you do that?
Thank

[Morgan_Moore]

I learn MFDB digital workflow.

You are new to a pretty old back right ? - nothing wrong in that !

Just to tell you another workflow to think about

Use the sinar or (brumbaer) software to create DNG files and then adjust those DNGs in Phase One Capture One

Why Capture One ?

-Web contact sheets can easily be made so clients have something to see !

-Supports both Nikon D3 and DNG Files - consistent workflow

-More stable/understandable/mature than Capture Shop

-Does not 'eat' your files like LightRoom

-Does not produce putrid colours like ACR


Just my opinion but worth a try - try all the RAW softwares - silkypix was my fav for a while (no web contact so it had to go)

SMM

[evgeny]

Thierry, thanks. Morgan, I can do everything in Photoshop after CaptureShop, thanks for this option.

[Mitchell Baum]

Hi Morgan,

Can you tell me what you mean by LightRoom eats files.

I'm thinking of buying a Sinar and using it with LR, and PS.

Thanks,

Mitchell