Moire Removal in Phocus

[Nick-T]

Supposedly the 1.1 update features an improved moire tool (something about a better ability to recognize the actual moire), but in use, I didn't see much of a difference.

Barry

Hi Barry
The difference I'm seeing between 1.0 and 1.1 is much less unwanted artifacting from the filter.

Nick-T

[David Grover / Capture One]

For what it's worth, we use this tool everyday at the studio, and it's nothing short of miraculous. The higher resolution backs like the 31 and 39 don't see as much moire as this shot david showed. Most of it clears up with a level 1 or 2, with no visible artifacts. If we have to go to level 3 (rare) it's likely that we'll see some artifacts from the filter, but the ability to make a layered file is a very simple solution. Supposedly the 1.1 update features an improved moire tool (something about a better ability to recognize the actual moire), but in use, I didn't see much of a difference.

Barry

Thanks Barry - thats kinda of what I was trying to get across!  I am glad it is working well - thats what we hoped!

Nick is right when he says that there the filter is more discerning on non-moire'd areas.  However the development continues and it will be even better.

Best,


David

[froesner]

Let me find out and get back to you!  No problem with the questions, Ill just make sure I have the right timeframe in the answers.

David

David,

I am interested in getting those answers as well - in particuliar concerning the iso bumb. I would greatly appreciate your efforts on the matter

Best

Frank

[David Grover / Capture One]

David,

I think the results are impressive. Thank you for posting them. Questions:

1. Is there one software team working on Phocus Mac and Phocus PC or two separate teams?

2. How are the teams handling updating each Phocus version: a) one after the other, or 2) making changes to each version at the same time?

3. It is nearly a year since I'm purchased my H3DII39s from Hasselblad and I do not have a version 1.0 of Phocus PC - can you clarify what is going on (I know you guys are working hard on it, that is not my question, I'm asking seriously: I've given you guys a lot of money, are we talking Thanksgiving, Chanukah, Easter or next Ramadan for Phocus PC?).

4. Are the same programmers who created FC doing the Phocus programming work?

5. I have also been patiently waiting for the 64 second exposure bump, why is it that PhaseOne backs have their firmware/software working for long expsoures but the H3DII39 cannot do more than 32 seconds? They are the same chipset, correct? Am I the only one who is asking for this? I have had to spend extra $$$ to obtain an H1 to do long exposures on film because this 64 second exposure bump has yet to be delivered (I also purchased the H1 because I suspect I won't see longer than 64 seconds from Hasselblad) - when can we get this exposure bump, by Christmas, Valentine’s Day, 4th of July (the British version) or next Halloween?

You know my stance on Hasselblad and the gear, or you should know. So these questions are not meant to be rude in any way - I would just appreciate some candid answers if you could. I am very much looking forward to Phocus PC's release (when it is ready) - so far what I have seen is good work. Thank you in advance.

Update: on the PSD output - very nice idea - is this available in the Phocus PC beta or not? Is the DAC available as layers or just moire? Because if you could create layers with the Phocus specific features you may make a lot of people very happy because they can jump to PS with the Phocus options.

Kind regards,
Derek

Hi Derek,

Apologies for the delay in answering, I just wanted to be sure I had the right information.

1.  There are two teams but of course with crossover between the two - Like moire handling algorithms, colour and so on.  They are handled by the same people.

2.  At the moment the Mac version is ahead of the PC version.  But this will narrow as time moves on.

3.  Public Beta release we aim for the end of this Month.

4.  Yes + Additional!

5.  The ability to go +1 on the ISO and double exposure time is ready to go, been through testing and so on.  This involves updating the firmware on your camera (obviously I guess!) to get this feature.  For us we need to finish packaging up the firmware for all the different products (H2D, H3D, CFV, CF etc) and make this available.  This is also aimed for the end of the month.

I hope that makes things a bit clearer!

The layered option for the same image is only available right now for the moire tool.  But I see it could be interesting to perhaps apply to other tools as well.  Careful thought would be needed in how to handle the GUI (could get confusing) but its certainly worth a discussion.

Best,



David

[stewarthemley]

David, first, thanks for contributing so much useful info. And thanks for avoiding the use of BS!

My own selfish little hope is for the bump in ISO ASAP. I currently find (H3D39II/Phocus 1.1) 50 ISO gives great results but then it rapidly tails off so that 100 is bearable, 200 only for emergency use and 400 should never ever be shown to a client! Mainly it's a noise problem and the Leaf and Phase backs that I tested had the same problem. Of course, others may disagree. Have you seen images with the ISO bump? Are they a stop better? And did I read you correctly in that we might see the (firmware) release at the end of this month? Thanks again.

[David Grover / Capture One]

I do my best!

I guess it is personal preference.  True if you are looking at 100% then the noise is much more visible but wether you like or dislike is down to you.  Have you printed off A2 inkjets of each ISO and compared?  

I saw images a long time ago with the bump and it has improved since then, so as its very much individual taste Ill let you be the judge.  ISO800 on the 50MP was looking good though.

Yes, you are correct about the firmware.  (I hope!  )

Best


David

[Dustbak]

David,

ISO800 on the 50MP did look good? Was that with images with good or bad light? Naturally good is a really subjective term but I hope you are more picky than I am  I don't mind noise as long as it is good looking. Good thing it is finally coming.

Looking forward to the bumps in ISO & Exposure duration. The longer exposure is that 64sec's? As you know we photographers are like little children. Give them a finger and we will grab your arm; any ideas whether stuff like 15min's is in the realm of realism for the current backs?

[jecxz]

David,

I'll echo the same sentiment as Dustbak - your responses are much appreciated. I was worried the PC version of Phocus would be the lonely step child, hence my questions.

I'm seeing the fall-off at 200 ISO and 400 ISO, not 100, but Dustbak is probably more experienced with digital than I am. I have been doing a lot of work in the woods where the light falls off very quickly and I have to stop shooting at 32 seconds and there is still a lot of light. I too feel 400 ISO is for emergency (sounds funny but it is an accurate word).

Looking forward to the 64 second bump! Be well.

Kind regards,
Derek

[froesner]

5.  The ability to go +1 on the ISO and double exposure time is ready to go, been through testing and so on.  This involves updating the firmware on your camera (obviously I guess!) to get this feature.  For us we need to finish packaging up the firmware for all the different products (H2D, H3D, CFV, CF etc) and make this available.  This is also aimed for the end of the month.

Best,

David

Thank you David

Best / Frank

[paulmoorestudio]

wow, that is impressive - I wish I could have back the time I have spent trying to rid a photo of moire in photoshop..

[Nick-T]

wow, that is impressive - I wish I could have back the time I have spent trying to rid a photo of moire in photoshop..

Yes it's a lifesaver, I remember hours trying to kill pattern moire with motion blur (against the angle of the moire) works pretty well when all else fails.
Nick-T

[Dick Roadnight]

I have received a few requests regarding the moire removal tool in Phocus (Hasselblad's Raw conversion software)

So I post a crop of an image with and without the tool applied at a level of 3 (Strength varies from 1-5)

David

Hi, David and all

I think this is a good example: HD311-50, 50-110mm @70, 50 asa, unscaled crop (not down-ressed), flash, 1/258 @f8.

Image with no correction
[attachment=17924:Moire_00..._as_shot.jpg]

Image with Moire correction on, level 5
[attachment=17923:Moire_00..._level_5.jpg]

Is Lycra one of the worst materials for Moiré?

The Moiré correction seemed to have no effect at less than level 5, and you can still see the Moiré pattern, but at least the pattern is different shades of the same colour, rather than large bands of a completely different colour!

[ced]

I wonder why when the 2 files taken to PS and turned to LAB why they are so different in the L channel...

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Moiré is just one form of aliasing. Most other forms of aliasing is much more subtle. Essentially it's false detail.

The best example I have found is the link below from a Sigma DP2:
http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/SigmaDP2...res_ACR-002.JPG

Note that the line pattern is not resolved at the number 17 at 20 we can see line pattern again but it is inverted.

Best regards
Erik

Hi, David and all

I think this is a good example: HD311-50, 50-110mm @70, 50 asa, unscaled crop (not down-ressed), flash, 1/258 @f8.

Image with no correction
[attachment=17924:Moire_00..._as_shot.jpg]

Image with Moire correction on, level 5
[attachment=17923:Moire_00..._level_5.jpg]

Is Lycra one of the worst materials for Moiré?



The Moiré correction seemed to have no effect at less than level 5, and you can still see the Moiré pattern, but at least the pattern is different shades of the same colour, rather than large bands of a completely different colour!