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Guy Mancuso

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« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2008, 11:07:44 am »

I think Phase One does have offices in NY. But why bother flying somewhere when they can ship right to your studio and try it on your own system. Real question is are we paying more for dealer support or are we not. The price when you buy does not say anything of that sort. We can buy a P30 plus with body and lens for almost the same money as we could buy a Hassy /31 system at Camera West. A good friend paid 32k for a Hassy system at Camera West and can we not get a P45 for somewhat the same setup and price, okay price has changed since than on the Hassy. Phase one has yet to respond to it that's all but neither has anyone else. Yes the P65 is expensive be it we need it or not is a personal decision. It will also sell to what the market will bear. I won't be buying it but others will. You also cannot compare a 3500 hundred camera to a 30k MF system in terms of marketing and sales. Everybody's brother in law will buy the 5d regardless of who is promoting it , there is no real money involved. I honestly don't know how you can compare the wide spread use of the Nikons and canons to a much smaller more expensive MF system in terms of service, support and pricing. They just do not compare in my view on any level. I don't know where this i don't trust Phase comes from. They are dependent on Mamiya's times schedule on delivering lenses. Mamiya screws up we blame Phase. Oh well different points of view but i like the dealer support. Never had it with any 35mm and it makes my life easier now. Just call in what i need and get it.
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Steve Hendrix

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« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2008, 01:07:00 pm »

Quote from: James R Russell
All this really tells me is their margins are too high.

They'd be better off if their reps became sales people and just sold product.  

Phase would be a lot better off if they stopped charging $4,000 for a warranty, value added or not.


JR

More reps would have to be hired to cover the territory our dealers cover and that would eat into a significant portion of those recovered margins. And before this idea of huge margins gets out of hand, let me tell you that Hasselblad dropped the price of their H3DII-39 to below my dealer cost at PPR. So don't get the idea that dealers were making $14,000 every time they sold an H3DII-39. It's going to be a challenge to see if this works for them because they're going to have to sell a lot more units than they have been to make the same profit.

A significant portion of medium format digital sales happen in rural areas, sold to photographers who had no idea the product was available. These sales would almost certainly be lost without specialized dealers, who go out and call on these guys. Essentially, specialized dealers are our reps, we pay them from the margin they make.

I'm not saying we would never look at other methods of distribution. But it's way too simple to see lower price and think it will work for distribution of that high end product with fewer people selling it that know what they're talking about, not to mention getting to the photographers who rarely get into a camera store in a large metroplitan area and ask for something like a Phase One product. People don't ask for these products, these products are presented to them and if that doesn't happen - and it likely won't in a Camera Store - the distribution model won't work.

We charge $3,000 for a 3 year Value Add warranty, not $4,000. You must be thinking of Hasselblad. Oh, I'm sorry, they're $5,000 for their 3 year warranty. Phase One's warranty guarantees next day replacement as well as some nice chotsky items, case, dual battery charger, etc. There is a definite cost to this in the substantial amount of digital backs which we have sitting on our shelves in Melville, New York waiting for a call. And if someone buys the Value Add Warranty for a P+/Phase One camera bundle, the additional cost is only $500 more and includes the Hasselblad lens adapter, which basically pays for the warranty.

Steve Hendrix
Phase One
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James R Russell

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« Reply #62 on: October 12, 2008, 01:13:58 pm »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix/Phase One
We charge $3,000 for a 3 year Value Add warranty, not $4,000. You must be thinking of Hasselblad. Oh, I'm sorry, they're $5,000 for their 3 year warranty.
Steve Hendrix
Phase One


[attachment=8848:Picture_9.png]
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Richard Boyle

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« Reply #63 on: October 12, 2008, 01:17:32 pm »

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« Last Edit: October 12, 2008, 09:21:34 pm by Richard Boyle »
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antonyoung

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« Reply #64 on: October 12, 2008, 01:25:02 pm »

Phase and the other medium format and digital back manufacturers are giving you guys exactly what most of you really want, which is something to whine and bitch about on the internet. Except for a few internet direct sales, everything you buy you buy from a dealer. B&H is a dealer, just not a full service dealer.

If you don't want to pay extra for extra service, then get the classic warranty. That's what it's there for and you'll save yourself three grand. I bought the classic warranty on a couple of backs, but now I get them all with the value added. The loaner is worth it to me- I have enough gear to self-insure, but if a back goes down then I'm out a back until it's fixed, with the value added I'm not.

Why on earth would Phase or any manufacturer want to open up direct retail stores? Dealers are profit centers for the manufacturer, dealers assume the risk of trying to make a market for the product, and dealers handle all the high maintenance customers.
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Steve Hendrix

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« Reply #65 on: October 12, 2008, 02:26:25 pm »

Quote from: James R Russell
[attachment=8848:Picture_9.png]

I stand somewhat corrected, the P30+ camera bundle does show a $4,000 price on the VA warranty. On the P45+/Camera bundle, the VA warranty is $3,500. Do we make money on extended warranty? Well, I certainly hope so. But there is substantial cost in tying up units on a shelf just in case someone calls and we have row after row of them at HQ just sitting there.

Steve Hendrix
Phase One
« Last Edit: October 12, 2008, 02:27:32 pm by Steve Hendrix/Phase One »
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FlashDB

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« Reply #66 on: October 12, 2008, 03:29:52 pm »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix/Phase One
Phase One's warranty guarantees next day replacement
Steve Hendrix
Phase One

Hi Steve
What is precisely meant by next day replacement guarantee? If my back says goodbye after 5PM, will I then have a replacement the day after?
What happens if it's not on stock and have to come all the way from Denmark? Will this guarantee then make me able to rent a back at the the cost of phase?  
/David
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Steve Hendrix

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« Reply #67 on: October 12, 2008, 03:41:23 pm »

Quote from: FlashDB
Hi Steve
What is precisely meant by next day replacement guarantee? If my back says goodbye after 5PM, will I then have a replacement the day after?
What happens if it's not on stock and have to come all the way from Denmark? Will this guarantee then make me able to rent a back at the the cost of phase?  
/David

David:

This is not a 24/7 type of warranty, "standard business hours" would apply. No medium format digital company offers 24/7 support. However, some of the specialized dealers do offer 24 hour support. We guarantee the availability, so "not in stock" issues don't come into play. We literally do have shelf upon shelf of replacement backs sitting on shelves waiting for the call.

Steve Hendrix
Phase One


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FlashDB

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« Reply #68 on: October 12, 2008, 04:39:30 pm »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix/Phase One
David:

This is not a 24/7 type of warranty, "standard business hours" would apply. No medium format digital company offers 24/7 support. However, some of the specialized dealers do offer 24 hour support. We guarantee the availability, so "not in stock" issues don't come into play. We literally do have shelf upon shelf of replacement backs sitting on shelves waiting for the call.

Steve Hendrix
Phase One

Thanks Steve!
Just looking for some answers  . Does this go world wide, if I for instance go to south africa? Or do I need to be in contract with a specialized dealer to get a back on location in areas where representation of dealers are low? Where do I find a specialized dealer?
/David
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Steve Hendrix

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« Reply #69 on: October 12, 2008, 05:14:33 pm »

Quote from: FlashDB
Thanks Steve!
Just looking for some answers  . Does this go world wide, if I for instance go to south africa? Or do I need to be in contract with a specialized dealer to get a back on location in areas where representation of dealers are low? Where do I find a specialized dealer?
/David

David

I believe the replacement aspect of the warranty would be restricted to the country of origin with regard to purchase. However to find dealers who might be able to offer support or rentals, go to http://phaseone.com, go to this menu "Contact Us">"Partner Locator" and choose region of choice.

In South Africa, the distributor is F11 Distributors:

www.f11distributors.co.za

Steve Hendrix
Phase One
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Richard Boyle

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« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2008, 07:35:49 pm »

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thsinar

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« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2008, 08:19:41 pm »

Thanks Steve,

I guess now one of my earlier posts makes more sense for some, when yourself you do confirm the same: margins are far away from what some are thinking, in the MFDB business.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: Steve Hendrix/Phase One
And before this idea of huge margins gets out of hand, let me tell you that Hasselblad dropped the price of their H3DII-39 to below my dealer cost at PPR. So don't get the idea that dealers were making $14,000 every time they sold an H3DII-39. It's going to be a challenge to see if this works for them because they're going to have to sell a lot more units than they have been to make the same profit.

Steve Hendrix
Phase One
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Thierry Hagenauer
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thsinar

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« Reply #72 on: October 12, 2008, 08:23:25 pm »

Steve,

with all respect, that is a difference of US$ 5'000.- for the VA warranty, for the P30+, not 4'000.-

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: Steve Hendrix/Phase One
I stand somewhat corrected, the P30+ camera bundle does show a $4,000 price on the VA warranty. On the P45+/Camera bundle, the VA warranty is $3,500. Do we make money on extended warranty? Well, I certainly hope so. But there is substantial cost in tying up units on a shelf just in case someone calls and we have row after row of them at HQ just sitting there.

Steve Hendrix
Phase One
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Thierry Hagenauer
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rethmeier

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« Reply #73 on: October 12, 2008, 08:28:24 pm »

I think Hasselblad saw what was coming with the Global market.

It's also possible that they had too much stock that needed to be shifted.

However, form a consumer point,I would be very pissed off,if I had purchased a H system and a week later they drop the price 40%.

Yes these are interesting times we live in.

Willem.
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gwhitf

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« Reply #74 on: October 12, 2008, 08:49:17 pm »

Quote from: thsinar
Steve,
with all respect, that is a difference of US$ 5'000.- for the VA warranty, for the P30+, not 4'000.-

To anyone juggling which warranty to buy, I always tried to buy the Three Year longer warranty for this reason alone: I find that anyone that's in the market for a used back, especially an expensive used back like this, does NOT want to buy any back that does not have a warranty on it. So my reasoning was: I for sure would use that back longer than a year, but I might not use it three years; so if I went to sell that used back to someone, I'd find far greater number of buyers for a back with any warranty on it at all, than for an (expensive) back with zero warranty.  A no-warranty back, to me, would be severely devalued in the marketplace. (Hell, they're devalued enough when you go to sell them). So I opted for the longer warranty to preserve resale value.

And think of the note above, about the three year warranty -- the P30 warranty alone would pay for TWO brand new 5DII's. Food for thought.
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Steve Hendrix

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« Reply #75 on: October 12, 2008, 09:54:54 pm »

Quote from: thsinar
Steve,

with all respect, that is a difference of US$ 5'000.- for the VA warranty, for the P30+, not 4'000.-

Best regards,
Thierry

Well it seems like I just can't add today. That pricing that was quoted is not list price from Phase One. List price on P30+ camera bundles:

Classic: $20,490
Value Add: $24,990

Difference = $4,500

Sorry for missing my math lessons. Why Calumet has the difference as $5,000 I do not know.

Steve Hendrix
Phase One

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Sean Reginald Knight

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« Reply #76 on: October 12, 2008, 11:43:30 pm »

Quote from: thsinar
Thanks Steve,

I guess now one of my earlier posts makes more sense for some, when yourself you do confirm the same: margins are far away from what some are thinking, in the MFDB business.

Best regards,
Thierry

Would you care to reveal what the margins really are just to put this to rest once and for all? It seems to me to make a claim that margins are far away from what some are thinking and yet not to reveal numbers is not to say anything much at all. In fact, I would regard this as a cop out and rather disingenuous.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2008, 11:43:51 pm by Sean Reginald Knight »
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Guy Mancuso

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« Reply #77 on: October 13, 2008, 12:07:03 am »

It would not be a cop out at all. Margins are company propriety information. You go buy a Cadillac do you honestly think they will tell you the profit and worse yet they say 300 dollar over invoice. Which we all know is BS than they never tell you what the back end deal was from the manufacturer. You think they only made 300 dollars when in fact it is more like 4k. Don't expect a answer from anyone on what margins are. As a Pro do you tell your client the profit made from that job. Let's be realistic here. Frankly i don't care what they make as long as the product works the service is there and i feel comfortable with the price paid. What i don't want to see is less MF OEM's out there which for us makes it more competitive on pricing. If there is only one or two than they will nail you to the wall since that is all you can buy. Great prices are wonderful but again i said this before and folks jumped down my throat, you do NOT want a monopoly out there. Otherwise at the end of the day WE will get screwed with less product and less competition and higher pricing because they can.
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simplify

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« Reply #78 on: October 13, 2008, 12:46:57 am »

Quote from: Sean Reginald Knight
Would you care to reveal what the margins really are just to put this to rest once and for all? It seems to me to make a claim that margins are far away from what some are thinking and yet not to reveal numbers is not to say anything much at all. In fact, I would regard this as a cop out and rather disingenuous.
Thats a ridiculous question.  They are trying to run a business.
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Sean Reginald Knight

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« Reply #79 on: October 13, 2008, 01:01:58 am »

Quote from: Guy Mancuso
It would not be a cop out at all. Margins are company propriety information. You go buy a Cadillac do you honestly think they will tell you the profit and worse yet they say 300 dollar over invoice. Which we all know is BS than they never tell you what the back end deal was from the manufacturer. You think they only made 300 dollars when in fact it is more like 4k. Don't expect a answer from anyone on what margins are. As a Pro do you tell your client the profit made from that job. Let's be realistic here. Frankly i don't care what they make as long as the product works the service is there and i feel comfortable with the price paid. What i don't want to see is less MF OEM's out there which for us makes it more competitive on pricing. If there is only one or two than they will nail you to the wall since that is all you can buy. Great prices are wonderful but again i said this before and folks jumped down my throat, you do NOT want a monopoly out there. Otherwise at the end of the day WE will get screwed with less product and less competition and higher pricing because they can.

A: Margins are not as high as you think.
Me: How high are they exactly?
A: I'm not telling.

What can I conclude from such a conversation?  

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