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Author Topic: Civility  (Read 12188 times)

dalethorn

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Civility
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2008, 02:24:50 pm »

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Why are Americans so enchanted with talk shows that are filled with so many threats?
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Quoting myself, I forgot to point out that it's not the poor making those threats on rightwing radio - it's the haves trying to insulate themselves from the have-nots.
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Robert Roaldi

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Civility
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2008, 03:40:56 pm »

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How well would civility work when some clever person with an agenda (and great civility) posts lengthy opposing responses, with no facts, to an original challenge such as "this product promo makes false claims...." etc? Whistleblowers, dissidents, consumer advocates have all faced these orchestrated attacks, and almost always lose. How can civility work against powerful forces such as megacorporations?
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I don't think that being civil should imply being meek or unforceful. Asking probing questions, demonstrating falsehoods, etc. can be accomplished without personally attacking the opponent. It's not easy to do, but it actually helps in staying on point. Once I get hot under the collar, I muddle up my arguments every time. Talk show bullies rely on this and train for it.

Once you internalize the fact that the personal attack is simply a tactic to throw you off balance (it's not personal), it's easier to deal with. Comes in handy in contract negotiations or buying used cars. This is all theory, I am not particularly good at doing what I just preached.

In places such as this one, a public forum dedicated to a particular interest, it's extra difficult to put up with uncivil behaviour though. The assumption is that people are all here for the same or similar purpose. What I do is draw the line this way, sort of. If people are only trying to score points, that is "win" the argument, rather than contribute to everyone's knowledge, then I ignore the thread and move on.

It's possible that remaining civil may give the rabble audience the mistaken impression that one is meek. I am not sure what you can do about that. We (humans) are good at mixing up presentation with content. A timely pertinent example is politicians who are not accomplished public speakers. What does on- camera glibness have to do with the qualities for the job? So the tendency is to have confidence in the slick polished performer. Why are we constantly fooled by this? I don't know.
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Rob C

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Civility
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2008, 04:40:49 pm »

Thanks for your contributions, people. I think that one neat way of staying polite is to imagine one were addressing Sonny Liston. What you might not say to his face is perhaps the measure of what should never be posted to/about another person.

I hadn´t thought that civility might be confused with timidity; however, that´s not such a bad thing, in a way, because if anything, an attack on such a poster merely shows the aggressive person to be a bully, something nobody can possibly like, rendering such attack kind of self-defeating. On the other hand, perhaps there are those who see it as victory, but should we be too concerned with them?

There is also the chance that attitudes change within a person as age rolls along. There probably is a certain mellowing that comes with the pension - at least there is less of the instant need to defend one´s position because in the greater scheme of things, life has already tended to introduce the concept of being side-lined or, should that be, freed to do other more personally interesting things?

Rob C

John Camp

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« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2008, 06:02:43 pm »

Michael,

Would it be possible to lock this discussion on grounds of inanity?

JC
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Pete JF

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« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2008, 06:56:11 pm »

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Michael,

Would it be possible to lock this discussion on grounds of inanity?

JC
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Damn. Thank you.





























(brutal is what it was)
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David Sutton

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Civility
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2008, 08:50:16 pm »

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Michael,

Would it be possible to lock this discussion on grounds of inanity?

JC
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There's nothing wrong with inanity John. It once kept me in a well paid job in marketing. David
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Rob C

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« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2008, 03:37:37 pm »

Quote from: John Camp
Michael,

Would it be possible to lock this discussion on grounds of inanity?

JC




Hard to tell, but assuming no levity, a strange sentiment coming from a guardian of free speech; what happened to the option of simply turning off if you aren´t interested?

Rob C

barryfitzgerald

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« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2008, 09:02:09 am »

I think this is one of the more polite forums around, there are plenty of choices out there if you like a good bar brawl.
To Michael's credit, he did take the flak a bit with the "you camera doesn't matter" stuff, but had the guts to let people make their point of view.
When things get personal it's time to head off the pastures new. At least most of what I have seen here, is not based on that.
After all it's only a forum, and we are meant to be "adults", aka we can agree to disagree.

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mahleu

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« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2008, 09:53:39 am »

Quote from: John Camp
Michael,

Would it be possible to lock this discussion on grounds of inanity?

JC

In your forum controls you can ignore users which means you never have to see their inane posts.
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dalethorn

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Civility
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2008, 10:32:04 am »

Quote from: mahleu
In your forum controls you can ignore users which means you never have to see their inane posts.
Inane to some people means childish chatter, but to other people inane is that which they can't comprehend, sometimes just for lack of imagination. I would guess the reasons some people don't click ignore are apathy, or frustration at not understanding and an unwillingness to simply ignore what they're having trouble with. Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt. After all, learning is the highest call we have here.
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jjj

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Civility
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2008, 10:46:23 am »

Quote from: dalethorn
One more thing - in real neighborhoods, if you want civility all the time, you have to pay. It's not free. You know what I'm talking about. Those "nice" places cost a lot more than the places on the south end of town, where the pollution blows to when the factories are operating. Same with the Web. You want civility for free, good luck.
So rich people are polite and poor people are rude! I never made that connection before, mainly as I've seen nothing to indicate that is actually the case. Monied people can be extremely rude and as manners cost nothing, those with less money are often very polite.
One of the most banned posters on my local forum, was usually very polite, yet due to his rather racist/homophobic/sectarian views he kept getting banned and reappearing under diferent pseudonyms. And politely fermenting hatred. He lives in a nice area.
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Tradition is the Backbone of the Spinele

jjj

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Civility
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2008, 10:50:46 am »

Quote from: Robert Roaldi
We (humans) are good at mixing up presentation with content. A timely pertinent example is politicians who are not accomplished public speakers. What does on- camera glibness have to do with the qualities for the job? So the tendency is to have confidence in the slick polished performer. Why are we constantly fooled by this? I don't know.
That's all we have to go by?
Though how do you explain Bush, who was notrious for his public gaffes and constant fumbling of the English language.
The recently Mayor of London is a buffoon, a professional buffoon, who is 'endearing' as a result of not being slick like most current politicians
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Tradition is the Backbone of the Spinele

michael

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« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2008, 11:24:40 am »

Ok, time to go out and play.

Michael
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