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jd1566

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Canon 5D critique
« on: September 30, 2008, 06:45:20 am »

Canon has done it again!
The 5D Mark II is a triumph.. of marketing over real photographic features.  
The FF terrain has recently seen some powerful contenders enter the ring, with Nikon with its second tier (but by no means second rate) camera making its debut with a 12mp sensor and now at Photokina Sony FINALLY announcing its first effort, highly commendable with its in-house 24mp sensor.  Each is trying to create a niche for itself, trying to differentiate itself from the competition.  So while all three are full-frame, and close in price (all sub $3000), they differ substantially in features.  The most complete offering in my mind (though by no means the best – that is reserved for personal choice to determine) is the Nikon; a proven sensor in a largely professional body with many tricks up its sleeve.  Mostly photographic controls, so I’d call it a photogs camera.  Next in line is the impressive first effort by Sony, who has pulled all the stops in what will probably be their top-tier camera.  They are competing in price with the other second-tier cameras, but offering build quality and features found only in the top cameras.  A beautifully large viewfinder, strong body and huge sensor mean that this camera will actually compete not only with the 5D2 and D700, but likely the 1Ds3 as well.  The D3 is in a different league so I don’t believe that it will attack it very much, as too the 1D3 which are both aimed at photojournalists who require high frame-rates and robust build and on-site backup options.  
Finally we have the Canon 5D2, which took 3 years to perfect.  Considering the timeframe of this upgrade, all I can really see that is impressive for this camera is the large-ish sensor sourced from the 1Ds3 (no mean feat.. same or better IQ as the flagship..  is Canon competing with Sony/Nikon or itself!?).  Also making a differentiation appearance is a rather impressive first effort at video capability.  This will interest a certain subset of pro photographers and some videographers who require FF quality and DOF effects in their videos.  Really though it is a feature for advanced video people, due to the raw nature of the output, the high-level tools required to turn the captured video into a viewable move, and the astronomical data volumes that this video feature will produce.  Not for your everyday shooter, landscape photographer or wedding shooter..  Still, two very good features.. But beyond that Canon marketing has stuck to its marketing guns of the past and left the rest mostly improved as per current trends, and nothing much else. A faint claim of weather resistance is made, but doesn’t compare with the competition at all, with most second tier products (including small frame K20D Pentax and Olympus E3) rather more weather sealed than the Canon.  The most important button, the power on lever is totally unsealed for example!  
The reality of digital is that people will experiment even further in photography, and that means photographing in different places, more often and in more inclement weather.  Canon is not rising to the challenge.  A nice large LCD is there, but we’d expect nothing less considering that it’s now the de-facto standard.  In a while we’ll wonder how did we ever survive with those cruddy screens of yesteryear (yesterday?!)?  A few other very MINOR tweaks (barely an extra frame per second being the most notable, and a whopping 2% extra viewfinder space..).  Magnification stayed the same, shutter lag as well, no function button like on the 50D (which could be quite useful, i.e. a personalized MLU button!).  The styling is more in tune with reality, elegant but not earth shattering.  Then again it was easy to improve here as the previous 5D was truly an ugly chunk of metal taking EOS design back 20 years.  No voice annotation feature, even though the camera has a microphone on-board!   The key points are the price differentiator, the 1Ds3 sensor and video capability.  The rest is a warmed over upgrade.  To paraphrase Michael Reichmann in his D700 Nikon review.. Canon has fallen into Nikon’s trap.  

What will save Canon?

The price differentiator, the resistance to change (i.e. unwillingness to ditch a lens investment for another brand) and the fact that all things considered the 5D of yore had EXCELLENT image quality.  If photographers can live without real photographic features (present on the D700), build quality and weather resistance (á-la Sony and Nikon) and just want a small form factor FF camera to make beautiful pictures, then the 5D is your ticket.  If you want more, more control, more professional features and couldn’t give a stuff about video (we’re photographers, right, not videographers!) then you’ll have to look elsewhere. Convergance may be coming.. but that doesn't instantly make us videographers.. nor does it follow that just because it's there, we'll wantto experiment with it..
 
In all this the real disappointment is that Canon doesn’t seem to have gotten the message that their cameras lack panache, styling and real photographic features.  The Eos mantra is over 20 years old and a major restyling and ground-up re-think is necessary.  Everyone around them is pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, and trying to make better products all around.  Nikon is a case in point, not shy of making redundant their current lineup with their next-generation cameras.  Sony, a new boy on the block wants to assert itself and is keen to throw in as many features as possible, barring the proverbial kitchen sink.  

Sony needs market share..

Nikon needs its pro shooters back.

Canon… needs its consumers to upgrade its products every few years..

That is the sad truth of their marketing strategy.  Surely selling a better made and thought out camera that will last (a little bit) longer will open up sales of things like lens and accessories.  Their approach seems to be to get you to buy more cameras than lenses!   This is perhaps an extreme portrayal, but it is done to show the main difference between the top three contenders in the FF segment of the market.  While I appreciate Canon lenses and technology, I am not enamored by their second-tier bodies, or even their pro ones, which suffer from the opposite problem; not enough “consumer” features, even those that would actually be useful to a pro. Their data collection for their pro bodies focuses almost exclusively on pro shooters, but the vast majority of buyers of their pro products are advanced amateurs!  The pros are actually an infinitesimal proportion of overall sales!
So, to conclude... I think Canon has (almost) dropped the ball. There’s a competent camera out there, but not as competitive as the competition!
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Ray

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Canon 5D critique
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2008, 10:36:38 am »

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Finally we have the Canon 5D2, which took 3 years to perfect.  Considering the timeframe of this upgrade, all I can really see that is impressive for this camera is the large-ish sensor sourced from the 1Ds3 (no mean feat.. same or better IQ as the flagship..  is Canon competing with Sony/Nikon or itself!?).

I can't really see that your opinion, which of course you are pefectly entitled to, is supported by the facts.  It's too early yet for noise comparisons of RAW images, but there's an implication that the 5D2 has less noise at high ISO than the 1Ds3. There seems to be some improvement in the transmissivity of the color filters and some improvement in the amplifiers which allows for higher 'real' ISO settings than are available on the 1Ds3.

There's also a higher resolution LCD screen, similar to that of the D700 and D3, but apparently slightly better than the D700's due to an improved non-reflective surface. Also, Live View mode now has an autofocus system.

Is Canon competing with Sony/Nikon or itself? All camera manufacturers that offer a range of products with a vaguely similar performance are competing with themselves to some extent, but Nikon is the shining example of competition with itself after the introduction of the D700 with almost identical specifications to the D3. The D700 and D3 are far closer to each other, in terms of all aspects of performance, than the 5D2 and 1Ds3.

Quote
Canon… needs its consumers to upgrade its products every few years..

That is the sad truth of their marketing strategy.  Surely selling a better made and thought out camera that will last (a little bit) longer will open up sales of things like lens and accessories.  Their approach seems to be to get you to buy more cameras than lenses!   This is perhaps an extreme portrayal, but it is done to show the main difference between the top three contenders in the FF segment of the market.

Canon would certainly like consumers to upgrade to a new model, not just every few years but every year, just as McDonald's would like you to eat more hamburgers. However, consumers presumably have free will and are under no obligation to upgrade if they think the improvements do not justify an upgrade, as I often don't. I considered Canon's first DSLR, the 3mp D30, to be too expensive for too few pixels, so I didn't buy. The 6mp D60 seemed a much better deal so I bought it. The next upgrade, the 10D didn't offer sufficient improvements for me, so I skipped it. The upgrade after the 10D, the 8mp 20D, seemed to have some very worthwhile improvements compared with my D60, especially in the noise department, so I bought it.

Likewise, the 5D2 has some very major improvements compared with the 5D1, so I shall likely get one.

Nikon have been making DSLRs for longer than Canon, but I would put Canon ahead at this point in time, not on all features of course, but on balance.
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lovell

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Canon 5D critique
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2008, 02:22:15 pm »

I find it exceedingly amusing that the Canon 5DM2 is disparaged so fast and summarily out of hand.  Lots of blather about features, and this and that of other "better" models.  A DSLR is not a piece of fashion, clothing, nor a glove.  If it lacks features and nicities, but provides excellent IQ, then one should care little.

But lets all wait for the 5DM2 to get into the hands of competent reviewers who will compare it's IQ against other full frame bodies....

....and I suspect that what Canon lacks in bells & whistles & sealing, it might more then make up for in IQ.  The Picture is the prime directive, and after that nothing else matters, so if the 5DM2 can provide IQ better then the 1DSM3 and D3, then it will have met it's goal as the best DSLR to date.  Just like the 5D did when it came out, and it held the title of the DSLR providing the best IQ until just earlier this year when the 1DSM3, D3 and D700 were announced.

My suspecion is that the Canon 5DM2 will be the DSLR to provide the best IQ of ANY Canon DSLR ever, and I suspect it will be true against all brands and models to date too.  And if my guess is true, then it's lack of features will be as significant to serious photographers as an ant's phart.  And if this holds true, then wow...Nikon's 12MP nice DSLR's will be in serious trouble, to be sure, and this will be true regardless of all the nice, cool, awesome, exciting features the Nikon's may have over the Canons.

Time will tell of course, and for this reason I draw no conclusions just yet....like all of you, I'm just supposing for now....
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 02:25:27 pm by lovell »
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JohnKoerner

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Canon 5D critique
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2008, 05:21:52 pm »

Quote
I find it exceedingly amusing that the Canon 5DM2 is disparaged so fast and summarily out of hand.  Lots of blather about features, and this and that of other "better" models.  A DSLR is not a piece of fashion, clothing, nor a glove.  If it lacks features and nicities, but provides excellent IQ, then one should care little.

But lets all wait for the 5DM2 to get into the hands of competent reviewers who will compare it's IQ against other full frame bodies....

....and I suspect that what Canon lacks in bells & whistles & sealing, it might more then make up for in IQ.  The Picture is the prime directive, and after that nothing else matters, so if the 5DM2 can provide IQ better then the 1DSM3 and D3, then it will have met it's goal as the best DSLR to date.  Just like the 5D did when it came out, and it held the title of the DSLR providing the best IQ until just earlier this year when the 1DSM3, D3 and D700 were announced.

My suspecion is that the Canon 5DM2 will be the DSLR to provide the best IQ of ANY Canon DSLR ever, and I suspect it will be true against all brands and models to date too.  And if my guess is true, then it's lack of features will be as significant to serious photographers as an ant's phart.  And if this holds true, then wow...Nikon's 12MP nice DSLR's will be in serious trouble, to be sure, and this will be true regardless of all the nice, cool, awesome, exciting features the Nikon's may have over the Canons.

Time will tell of course, and for this reason I draw no conclusions just yet....like all of you, I'm just supposing for now....
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smthopr

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Canon 5D critique
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2008, 11:39:15 pm »

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B&W photographer - Still lifes, Portraits, Urban scenes, Landscapes, Abstract images.

JD,

I don't know anything yet about how good the 5dII is.

But I do know that this site is called Luminous-Landscape

I would guess that landscape photographers would put image quality above such things as auto-focus and shots per second for the most part.

For me, and I'm just one guy, I have a 5d and find it makes excellent images and works more than fast enough for the kind of stuff that I do.  I've even done some street stuff without looking through the lens and the focus has been amazingly accurate.  Of course I'm aware that I've got it set to focus on the closest object when doing this. If this camera is a little awkward in it's controls, I've gotten used to it for the most part. And the 5d was the best IQ DSLR I could buy for $1900 last winter, and probably still today.

I think I still like shooting 6x9 film for serious landscapes, but the 5d makes amazing quality panoramas shooting handheld.

So, for this one guy, IQ will pretty much be my guide when choosing my next camera, if I should ever buy another...
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Kagetsu

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Canon 5D critique
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2008, 01:28:18 am »

I have to say... I know where the idea of bells and whistles comes from... If anything the 5D is the most complete of all the camera's out there.
High res, nice LCD, and 1080p30, along with HDMI.

Sure the focus may not be as advanced as the D700, or have as nice a view finder as the A900, but you can't deny it's a bloody impressive camera.

I also can't help but notice a lot of people say the sensor it untested, and while it's not the same unit as found in the 1DsIII, it won't be worse then it. The only reason to be interested in image quality is for noise performance really... otherwise, we have a good guess at what the camera will resolve... though I doubt too many here are overly concerned with that.

Personally the sole reason I'll be going with this camera is for the 1080p30. Nothing more. The fact that it's available in an SLR body just acts as backup to my original... Everything else (including the 24P/25P talk) doesn't really bother me.
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Deep

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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2008, 04:33:43 am »

There won't be many times that the D700 will be taking better pictures than the 5DMkII, or even the original 5D for that matter.  Of course, if you are a long time Nikon user with a collection of lenses, you will love it.  If your lenses bear the Canon name, you will no doubt be smiling at the prospect of the 5DII.

My Canon lens are all old FD primes so neither is going to work.  When I want more pixels to complement my lovely E3 I have a better choice now than ever before, and it will probably be the Sony 900 which gets my money - because the picture comes from a combination of factors and in this case the lenses, body and sensor worked very nicely together when I tried them.

I guess the original post was a deliberate stir but it strikes me that it would not have been possible a year ago as Canon had it all to themselves.  Great times for the less well-heeled photographer!
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Don

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Canon 5D critique
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2008, 07:04:11 am »

Looking at the current new model situation in a more positive light you would have to be pretty happy trying to decide between cameras with these features and resolution for so little money..

Anyone else here buy one of the first Nikon or Canon pro bodies for three times as much money and one quarter the resolution and NONE of the high ISO abilities ?    

Glass half full.
Glass half full.
Glass half full.


 
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azi

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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2008, 08:36:10 am »

David - nice comment

I think that rather than moan and whine about how crappy the high ISO performance of a particular digital SLR might be (amongst other supposedly below-par features and performance).... pretend that you're back in the 1990s and stuck shooting ASA25 Kodachrome for your landscapes or pushed T-Max 1600 with golfball grain and contrast curves with gradient of a cliff face.  Count your blessings.  

(Message addressed to no one in particular!)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 08:40:53 am by azi »
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jd1566

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Canon 5D critique
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2008, 09:03:15 am »

Thanks to all for your comments about my post.  I think though that many were confused some of the things I was implying.  The gist of my argument that the Canon 5D is not as good as the competition was about a combination of factors, IQ only being one of them.  IQ is probalby as good as the 1Ds3, probably even better considering the high ISO capability, and probably a better noise reduction algorithm as well.. However I was comparing the whole 5D offering to the other condenders, the Sony A900 and the Nikon D700 and in my view I found the Canon wanting AS A CAMERA.  I question the usefulness of the video function for most photographers (although clearly some will see it as an advantage, and many new users of the 5D2 will be won this way).  As a photographer since I was 12 years old, I am not looking for a video camera.. and I assume that many other photographers aren't either.. so this feature is really to win new market share, not necessaritly for the 5D constituent photographers who are looking to upgrade..  As for the other updates and upgrades, I don't see anything revolutionary, or at all surprising. i.e. Canon has stuck to it's marketing formula and left most things as they were, and only changed things were we were likely looking. This is not agressive marketing, it's almost status quo marketing..  The Sony and Nikon seem to be much more agressive in both build quality, performance and geniune photographic features..  so in my book the Canon is a bit of a flop.  It updates the 5D, making it a modern version of itself.. but there is little improvement in photographic controls, or those features that count in critical situations. A case in point are the shutter meccanism that is rated at 150,000 actuations (or tested.. not guaranteed) but viewfinder blackout is exactly the same.. I.e. we're getting hte same shutter with extra magnets and little apparent improvement.. Shutter delay is also the same as before.. a really slow lethargic camera..   The buffer is now decreased to 13/15 shots from the 17 previously..  No mention of mirror bounce springs (á la 40D) to reduce camera shake from the shutter meccanism..  We're looking at a VERY MODEST UPGRADE..  That really is the gyst of my post.. Canon has done nothing revolutionary, and their copy on their moon advert is "Evolutionary".. Yes, kudos for telling the truth.. but minu several billion points for not giving me real advancement..  It's curious because with the 5D the sales of the 1Ds3 will all but die.. For all it's bells and whistles, the superior IQ of the 5D2 and low light capability will mean that just about everyone (except maybe me) with a significant investment in Canon lenses will most certainly upgrade to this camera.. Anyone who was considering a 1Ds3.. will reconsider strongly..  So my point is.. with the 1Ds3 essentially dead because of internal competition.. why Canon up the ante and give the 5D some serious features to make the opposition tremble..  We know the 1Ds Next generation will have pretty impressive snesor qualitites (pixel binning), may feature a crop sensor and a plethora of other real enhancements.. so there was no point in creating such a difference between the two cameras..  Anyway, thanks again for your posts.
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Deep

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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2008, 02:50:47 pm »

Quote from: jd1566
Thanks to all for your comments about my post.  I think though that many were confused some of the things I was implying.  The gist of my argument that the Canon 5D is not as good as the competition was about a combination of factors, IQ only being one of them.  IQ is probalby as good as the 1Ds3, probably even better considering the high ISO capability, and probably a better noise reduction algorithm as well.. However I was comparing the whole 5D offering to the other condenders, the Sony A900 and the Nikon D700 and in my view I found the Canon wanting AS A CAMERA.  I question the usefulness of the video function for most photographers (although clearly some will see it as an advantage, and many new users of the 5D2 will be won this way).  As a photographer since I was 12 years old, I am not looking for a video camera.. and I assume that many other photographers aren't either.. so this feature is really to win new market share, not necessaritly for the 5D constituent photographers who are looking to upgrade..  As for the other updates and upgrades, I don't see anything revolutionary, or at all surprising. i.e. Canon has stuck to it's marketing formula and left most things as they were, and only changed things were we were likely looking. This is not agressive marketing, it's almost status quo marketing..  The Sony and Nikon seem to be much more agressive in both build quality, performance and geniune photographic features..  so in my book the Canon is a bit of a flop.  It updates the 5D, making it a modern version of itself.. but there is little improvement in photographic controls, or those features that count in critical situations. A case in point are the shutter meccanism that is rated at 150,000 actuations (or tested.. not guaranteed) but viewfinder blackout is exactly the same.. I.e. we're getting hte same shutter with extra magnets and little apparent improvement.. Shutter delay is also the same as before.. a really slow lethargic camera..   The buffer is now decreased to 13/15 shots from the 17 previously..  No mention of mirror bounce springs (á la 40D) to reduce camera shake from the shutter meccanism..  We're looking at a VERY MODEST UPGRADE..  That really is the gyst of my post.. Canon has done nothing revolutionary, and their copy on their moon advert is "Evolutionary".. Yes, kudos for telling the truth.. but minu several billion points for not giving me real advancement..  It's curious because with the 5D the sales of the 1Ds3 will all but die.. For all it's bells and whistles, the superior IQ of the 5D2 and low light capability will mean that just about everyone (except maybe me) with a significant investment in Canon lenses will most certainly upgrade to this camera.. Anyone who was considering a 1Ds3.. will reconsider strongly..  So my point is.. with the 1Ds3 essentially dead because of internal competition.. why Canon up the ante and give the 5D some serious features to make the opposition tremble..  We know the 1Ds Next generation will have pretty impressive snesor qualitites (pixel binning), may feature a crop sensor and a plethora of other real enhancements.. so there was no point in creating such a difference between the two cameras..  Anyway, thanks again for your posts.
No disrespect but it sounds like you've got a case of sour grapes because Canon didn't give you features you personally wanted in their new model.  You do realise you're contradicting yourself?  You say the 5DII is a bit of a flop and then suggest it will kill sales of a the 1Ds3?  So what, it's no good, but better than the flagship?  Is there that much wrong with the original 5D, even today?  Does the shutter have a reputation for dying?  No and no.  The 5D was a great camera and sold well.  Now it's been made way, way better.  And if you don't like video, so what?  You're not paying extra to have it.  Don't use it.  Canon's not dumb.  They will sell a truckload of these things.  Look at the front page of dpreview.com at which cameras get the most looks - the 5DII has headed that list since it was announced.  IF you are regularly filling your buffer, regularly have a problem with the focus system (doubt it) or have to shoot in the rain sometime then there are alternatives (but only the Olympus E3 is anywhere near the price bracket).  Otherwise the 5DII looks like it will produce near enough to the best files of any 35mm based DSLR, reliably, consistently and at a price unthinkable only a year or so ago.

Oddly, even with the huge number of camera on the market today, no one makes a camera which is able to please everyone!  Human nature.  You should be grateful there is so much choice.  If you have a "significant investment in Canon lenses" you have the choice of staying with your current body or getting a new one.  No one took anything away from you, they gave you something new - more choice, a better option.  Yay!  Celebrate that.

Anyway, I'm ducking out of this discussion now.  Too much like banging my head against a wall!

Don.
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jjj

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Canon 5D critique
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2008, 03:36:54 pm »

Quote from: jd1566
........  Also making a differentiation appearance is a rather impressive first effort at video capability.  This will interest a certain subset of pro photographers and some videographers who require FF quality and DOF effects in their videos.  Really though it is a feature for advanced video people, due to the raw nature of the output, the high-level tools required to turn the captured video into a viewable move, and the astronomical data volumes that this video feature will produce.  Not for your everyday shooter, landscape photographer or wedding shooter..
To correct your misinformation. The Video footage is not RAW and can easily be opened in Quick Time, hardly advanced and I've heard lots of wedding photographers get very excited over this camera, both for the high ISO and the video capability.
You  only produce huge amount of video data if shooting indiscriminately or doing documentary work - where a 5D is not a good choice anyway.
And if you are using a 5D for video, 1TB drives are very cheap these days. CF cards filling up will be more of a problem, though even those are becoming enormous.


 
Quote
If you want more, more control, more professional features and couldn’t give a stuff about video (we’re photographers, right, not videographers!) then you’ll have to look elsewhere. Convergance may be coming.. but that doesn't instantly make us videographers..
I'm a professional, yet contrary to your assertions, the 5D was just what I wanted. The 5DII is even better, just because of the video feature. As for instantly becoming videographers, well the 5D or any other camera doesn't make you a photographer either.

 
Quote
In all this the real disappointment is that Canon doesn’t seem to have gotten the message that their cameras lack panache, styling and real photographic features.
Damn, so how did I take all those nice pictures then with cameras that were so crap?




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jjj

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« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2008, 03:44:41 pm »

Quote from: jd1566
Shutter delay is also the same as before.. a really slow lethargic camera..
I do a lot of dance photography, where getting the right moment is extrememly important and I find the 5D to be no problem at all with shutter delay.
For this shot I had the chap jump in air a few times to work out his positioning and timing, adding the chap in back ground and I then took just the one exposure to get this shot. All using a slow sluggish 5D - in single shot mode BTW.

 


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Tony Beach

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« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2008, 04:06:05 pm »

Quote from: Deep
...if you don't like video, so what?  You're not paying extra to have it.

I doubt this is true.  Of course, market forces determine prices and not features, but shoehorning a feature into a camera does raise its cost and thereby lowers the profit margin.  I wonder how low they could go if they made a completely striped down DSLR with no features, no monitor, no AF, no fps, not even a battery (manually wind it up for each shot); make it really light and give it MLU and I would snap one up if the price was right.

Quote from: Deep
Oddly, even with the huge number of camera on the market today, no one makes a camera which is able to please everyone!  Human nature.  You should be grateful there is so much choice.

I don't think we have an abundance of choices, especially if you are locked into a system because of a large investment in lenses; I think what is most regrettable is that everyone wants to make the same camera, much like everyone wants to make the same TV show (American Idol).  Just like television and Hollywood, when someone does come up with something unique that has reasonably strong mass appeal, then everyone copies that instead of innovating something of their own to offer to those of us not happy with what is currently available.  In that regard the 5DII is more of the same, whereas the original 5D was much more unique.  Canon is putting a full court press on the competition as far as prices and profit margins are concerned, as a photographer though (rather than as a consumer per se) I wonder if that serves me or in the end if that is a trend that will eliminate competition (which makes price relief only temporary) and choices (which could have much more long term negative ramifications).
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Canon 5D critique
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2008, 05:14:21 pm »

"This is not agressive marketing, it's almost status quo marketing.. The Sony and Nikon seem to be much more agressive in both build quality, performance and geniune photographic features.. so in my book the Canon is a bit of a flop."

I have to agree with this. Looks like Nikon and Sony made much bigger leaps than Canon. If you're practical, you have to ask: where is the IR remote control? Where is the flash commander? Where is any really revolutionary improvement in body design? (like, the third control dial for iso settings?) Etc etc.

Having said this, the 5D2's pixelcount and LCD alone make this an interesting next purchase (although I'm afraid I'll always have to bring a tripod if I want to take advantage of those 21MP's - that's where the Sony gets darned interesting!)

Video mode will be fun to play with, sure: once, like the digicam on my phone.
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