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Author Topic: canon 5d mk2  (Read 19632 times)

innesfoto

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« on: September 27, 2008, 11:41:37 am »

Hi to all you would be 5d mk 2 owners.
I am just back from Photokina, where I was one of the first through the door and onto the Canon stand to get my hot sweaty hands on the new 5d mk2.
What can I report? Well, firstly let me say that if you are reading this thread you have probably already read all the speck on the camera anyway. We all know it is 21MP and does HD video. has chip cleaning and has a wide ISO range.
I will leave other people to comment on those aspects of the camera as they will be reported on over the coming months in the minutest details by every photo site and magazine.
What I am hoping for here is what people really think of it, what it has, and what it doesn´t have. and what affect will it have in the 1ds mk3 spec and its pricing.

Firstly let me say the camera feels almost identical to the old 5d. Not a bad thing, and not a brilliant one either. The viewfinder looks almost the same as well. The focus system has ( at least as far as I could see) not been updated. That is not a good thing!
In as much as a 9 zone AF system with 4 assist points often struggles to lock focus on tricky subjects.  The shutter on the other hand does feel completely different. When you fire the camera it is very balanced and makes a much softer click action. this may be due to the new secondary metering and focus mirror and the added dampening mechanism. Either way a big improvement on the old model, and good for at least 100,000 cycles.
As a landscape photographer I was very interested in a mirror lock, which is not located within the custom function menu. Now, I do not have an answer as to whether
they have relocated it or if it still resides in the CF menu, I do know that there is the option to have a mirror lock via the self timer but that is frankly of almost no interest to me. So if anyone out there knows if the mirror lock has been added to the function buttons, I would love to hear about it. I did ask the guys on the Canon desk, but no one could give me an answer.
Another niggle for me on the 5d was the CF card door, which I always found a bit light weight and could at the very least have done with a spring mount or an interlock to hold it closed. Well no change there I´m afraid. Also no ability to back up files with a second CF card like in the NIkon D3.
Now there may be many of you out ther like me who have read that the Canon 5D  mk2 will write GPS data to the exif data. Well, after much asking about on the Canon stand, I managed to find someone who could give me some full info on that.
You need to get the WFT-E4 file transmitter grip that bolts on to the bottom of the camera and a GPSi hand set and connect the two via a USB lead.
Now, this would be okay if my GPS could communicate with the grip via an IR link   or digital radio link, but USB! Do me a favor! this grip costs €1200,00 and it is the only way to connect to GPS, even though the camera already has a USB  socket installed, it can´t be used, as it needs the WTF-E4 as an interface.
So my advice is to go with one of the third party systems, until Canon sorts this out.
They cost a fraction of this price and work just as well.
I have now said what I think is bad about this Camera, now I will say what I think is good, 21MP can not be ignored, and will be without doubt a real pisser for anyone  who has coughed up €6500.00 for a 1DS MK3.  Along with 50-25600 ASA with very little noise, Chip cleaning, dust recognition software, 3.9 FPS, and lets not forget  HD video.  All for €2400.00
For anyone who thought they would do the wait and see game on what Canon would come out with, you will not be disappointed.  I know it is not perfect, and lets face it
what camera is? The D3 is nearly there, But no chip cleaner! what were they thinking? the 1DS mk3 The camera equivalent to Laura Croft but with a price tag  that could be grounds for a divorce from your partner, I never saw it as a clear winner. But the 5d MK2  Looks like  Pamela Anderson, (Well Specked) goes like a barn door in a hurricane and at €2400.00 even Lehman brothers could afford it.
So, an all round winner then? not quite, There is Sony bitting at its heals with the Alpha 900 which I have also seen, which handles very well, has a higher MP count and Zeiss T* Lenses.  Okay not quite such a high spec as the Canon but a good machine never the less. Its biggest downfall is the Focus, I could not detect an improvement over the Minolta 7D focus system. Its slow and struggles to find focus on low contrast scenes. But apart from that a great camera.
But wait, there is one more shoe to drop, The Nikon D3x, Yes, that old chestnut.
If it appears this year and prices itself within €1000.00 of the Canon 5D Mk2  I think Canon will have a fight on their hands. If on the other hand they price closer to the 1DS mk3 price the 5D mk2 will have the market to itself, and for a very long time.
So as a verdict, will I be buying one? I will wait until November-December to see what Nikon do, and let the price settle down to about 20% off its launch price, And then if Nikon don´t react with something even better then Canon you will have another €2000.00 of my hard earned.
Keep the comments coming, chaps, and if anyone can tell me more about the mirror lock I would like to hear it.

Andy
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madmanchan

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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2008, 02:06:25 pm »

I am guessing their firmware wasn't complete; with all previous Canon models the mirror-up feature was part of the custom functions. With my 5D I tied this to the Custom mode on the dial and I expect the same can be done on the 5D II (now there are 3 custom modes instead of 1).
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Eric Chan

DarkPenguin

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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2008, 02:58:33 pm »

Just punch the live view button.  The mirror is now locked up.
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dwdallam

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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2008, 04:39:38 am »

I think you duplicated a thread that is already white hot on the same topic in the same forum.
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innesfoto

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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2008, 11:33:18 am »

Quote
I think you duplicated a thread that is already white hot on the same topic in the same forum.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225137\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I haven´t read the other thread yet, but will get on it.
Thanks by the way for the suggestions, but what if I don´t want to be in live view, and I just want mirror lock up, and want to hold it there for say 5 exposures.
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innesfoto

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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2008, 11:50:20 am »

I thought I would help some of you out by posting this link on Sample shots off the 5D MK 2  I know it is to a rival site but it is interesting to see the quality never the less.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos5dmarkII/page14.asp

If these shots are anything to go by, I reckon the Canon "L" Zoom optics are already pushing the limits on this new body, and it is also my opinion that unless you are using a tripod for maximum stability you are not going to get anything like the best quality out of this camera. Almost all of these shots viewed at 100% show what looks more like minute camera shake more than optical unsharpness. It must also be said that these shots come off a Beta version Camera,  and we also don´t know if the micro lens adjustment was used to fine tune the camera.

Andy
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innesfoto

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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2008, 12:03:05 pm »

I thought I would also add this link for all you would be film makers, who want to see what this camera is capable of. Now this is impressive!  All shot on a 5D MK2 at
3200 ISO Check it out!

http://www.vincentlaforet.com/
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dwdallam

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« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2008, 02:26:03 am »

You guys are duplicating all the information in the other OLDER 5D2 thread.
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innesfoto

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« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2008, 06:36:27 am »

Sorry if you think that DWDALLAM
But I hadn´t read your thread, ether way it does´t really matter. we are not in competition with each other here.
As I have actually had my hands on this camera I am happy to share what I know with the other people on this site.
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reissme

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« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2008, 08:50:50 am »

Quote
Sorry if you think that DWDALLAM
But I hadn´t read your thread, ether way it does´t really matter. we are not in competition with each other here.
As I have actually had my hands on this camera I am happy to share what I know with the other people on this site.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225447\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you Andy, for the information and your opinion about the 5d mk 2, good and less good sides.
(don't pay attantion to people who don't respect your efforts to share your point of view on the 5d mk 2).
I use my 1DS M3 set (live view) button, for the mirror lock up, even for 5 shots one after the other, with no problem. Why doing so in the  5d mk 2 can be a problem?  
Best regards.
Menachem Reiss www.reiss.co.il
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innesfoto

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« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2008, 09:45:22 am »

Thanks for that Menachem,
It´s always good to get a bit of good advice from someone who is actually using the gear.  How do you feel about the 5D MK2  having bought the 1ds mk3?
I have been waiting to see what happened this year at Photokina before I went for the 1ds, Which if I might add is without doubt one beautiful camera and can not be compared to the 5d mk2 in its build quality or handling or weather sealing for that matter. But as for its price, thats on another planet.  As for the final results I doubt there is much between them.
What I can also add is that for all the tests they did on the Nikon D3 and the 1ds mk3.
I took out a D3 for the day and tried it against my 5D and there was NO difference in the quality at all ISO speeds below 400. after that the Nikon sped away on its own.
But for me as a landscape photographer the camera is always on its lowest ISO settin
for maximum quality.
I can also say I have used the 1DS MK3 and just the image size alone leaves the Nikon standing.  But as far as Canon lenses are concerned, Canon have nothing to compare with the 14-24 f2.8 Nikon. That is one bloody amazing bit of glass, and it is that, that is holding me up from going for more Canon gear before the D3X is announced.
The Canon 17-40 f4 is OK, and I own one, but is no great star. the Canon 16-35 f2.8 mk2 is most certainly not worth twice the price, and the 14mm f2.8 is also a nice bit of glass, but at €1800.00 forget it!
For all out there who are interested in these kind of wide angles check out this review.
Look at the Chromatic problems on the Canons at the edges!
This buy the way, will most certainly show up at 21MP on your new 5D MK2 so be aware.

http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/nikon_14_24...n14_24mm_a.html  

keep the comments coming.

Andy
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lisa_r

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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2008, 11:48:57 am »

So you are disappointed with the AF not changing much, but did you actually try it? In low light? It is supposed to have improved a lot even though it's the same amount of selectable AF points, etc.

I have never had an issue with the 5D AF. I use then a not for daylight fashion work and just about everything is sharp, even in relative darkness...
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innesfoto

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« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2008, 12:41:24 pm »

Quote
So you are disappointed with the AF not changing much, but did you actually try it? In low light? It is supposed to have improved a lot even though it's the same amount of selectable AF points, etc.

I have never had an issue with the 5D AF. I use then a not for daylight fashion work and just about everything is sharp, even in relative darkness...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225529\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Lisa
Regarding the AF
Yes I did try it, and it was in fairly low light, and I can say, I could see no difference between this 5D and the old one. But what I can say is it is a damn sight better than the Sony Alpha 900, and not as good as the Nikon D700, or D3.
But hey, Who makes a perfect camera? and Canon need to leave room for the 5D mk3 I guess, otherwise there would be nothing left to improve.
Please don´t misunderstand, the 5D MK2 is a mighty fine little beast, and if truth be known has (as far as I can see) no competition in the market at the moment.
And at 21MP eating squarely into medium format territory at a blinding €2400.00
what a bargain!
But it is not perfect, and for all you sports and wildlife photographers out there, I doubt that the focus system on this EOS will cut the mustard.
As a Landscaper it makes no odds to me.  If you want top AF performance then you have to go with the 1D series, or the Nikon D700, or D3,

Andy
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reissme

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« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2008, 09:08:32 am »

Quote
Thanks for that Menachem,
It´s always good to get a bit of good advice from someone who is actually using the gear.  How do you feel about the 5D MK2  having bought the 1ds mk3?
I have been waiting to see what happened this year at Photokina before I went for the 1ds, Which if I might add is without doubt one beautiful camera and can not be compared to the 5d mk2 in its build quality or handling or weather sealing for that matter. But as for its price, thats on another planet.  As for the final results I doubt there is much between them.
What I can also add is that for all the tests they did on the Nikon D3 and the 1ds mk3.
I took out a D3 for the day and tried it against my 5D and there was NO difference in the quality at all ISO speeds below 400. after that the Nikon sped away on its own.
But for me as a landscape photographer the camera is always on its lowest ISO settin
for maximum quality.
I can also say I have used the 1DS MK3 and just the image size alone leaves the Nikon standing.  But as far as Canon lenses are concerned, Canon have nothing to compare with the 14-24 f2.8 Nikon. That is one bloody amazing bit of glass, and it is that, that is holding me up from going for more Canon gear before the D3X is announced.
The Canon 17-40 f4 is OK, and I own one, but is no great star. the Canon 16-35 f2.8 mk2 is most certainly not worth twice the price, and the 14mm f2.8 is also a nice bit of glass, but at €1800.00 forget it!
For all out there who are interested in these kind of wide angles check out this review.
Look at the Chromatic problems on the Canons at the edges!
This buy the way, will most certainly show up at 21MP on your new 5D MK2 so be aware.

http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/nikon_14_24...n14_24mm_a.html   

keep the comments coming.

Andy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225498\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Andy

I enjoy working in advertising and fashion with the 1ds mk3. The 5D MK2  is not a replacement even if the results are the same. I too, have the Canon 17-40 f4 that in my case is superb in sharpness to the edges (with small Chromatic aberrations to fix in PS). I am waiting for the "Nikon G > Canon EOS Adaptor" to arrive, for using with the Nikon 14-24 f2.8 . I must tell you  the superiority of the Canon 70-200 f2.8 compare to Nikon glass of the same focal lens. My advice is to check other Nikon glasses before moving to Nikon gear.
Best regards.


 Menachem Reiss www.reiss.co.il
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Christopher

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« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2008, 10:45:44 am »

Quote
Hi Andy

I enjoy working in advertising and fashion with the 1ds mk3. The 5D MK2  is not a replacement even if the results are the same. I too, have the Canon 17-40 f4 that in my case is superb in sharpness to the edges (with small Chromatic aberrations to fix in PS). I am waiting for the "Nikon G > Canon EOS Adaptor" to arrive, for using with the Nikon 14-24 f2.8 . I must tell you  the superiority of the Canon 70-200 f2.8 compare to Nikon glass of the same focal lens. My advice is to check other Nikon glasses before moving to Nikon gear.
Best regards.
 Menachem Reiss www.reiss.co.il
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225746\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I would love to see what sharp to the edges means. When I tried this lens it was just horrible. It was like that already on a Mk2, but perhaps it is just the question of what one expects.
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Christopher Hauser
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The View

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« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2008, 07:05:59 pm »

Quote
So you are disappointed with the AF not changing much, but did you actually try it? In low light? It is supposed to have improved a lot even though it's the same amount of selectable AF points, etc.

I have never had an issue with the 5D AF. I use then a not for daylight fashion work and just about everything is sharp, even in relative darkness...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225529\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'd also say that 9 focus points are enough, and as they are still nine doesn't say it's the same autofocus system. Couldn't really imagine Canon would put a three year old system into a brand new camera.
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The View of deserts, forests, mountains. Not the TV show that I have never watched.

innesfoto

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« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2008, 12:52:45 pm »

I have the Canon Brochure here, and it only says that the AF is slightly more receptive when using 2.8 lenses in low light. Thats it. So as I said, I could detect little if no difference.
Compare it to the Nikon D700 with I think a 51 point AF system, I think this could have been a serious point for improvement for Canon.
But anyway, look at all the other great stuff its got. And who would have thought it 21MP
I would have been certain that it would be a 16MP FF body possibly using the 1ds mk2 sensor, what what a bonus!
I wonder if this means we will see an update to the 1DSmk3 at PMA, maybe an "N" version or something.  Lets face it, for that kind of money it should be running on Digic 4, have a 920,000 dot display, and a wider dynamic range sensor, just for starters.
Also if anyone can give me an answer to this one I would be greatfull.
Can you bracket expose in liveview, keeping the mirror held up for all three frames?
It´s very useful  for HDR, for minimum movement and maximum speed between frames. Maybe a 1ds mk3 or a D50 user might have the answer.

Andy
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douglasf13

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« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2008, 03:53:21 pm »

Quote
Hi Lisa
Regarding the AF
Yes I did try it, and it was in fairly low light, and I can say, I could see no difference between this 5D and the old one. But what I can say is it is a damn sight better than the Sony Alpha 900, and not as good as the Nikon D700, or D3.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225547\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

  I'm not sure how low the light was were you were shooting, but the A900 shouldn't be that far off of the 5Dii in lowlight AF.  In normal light, the A900/A700 is the fastest camera around.  What lens was on the camera?  Was the camera set to AF: slow mode?
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douglasf13

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« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2008, 07:33:02 pm »

Quote
I'm not sure how low the light was were you were shooting, but the A900 shouldn't be that far off of the 5Dii in lowlight AF.  In normal light, the A900/A700 is the fastest camera around.  What lens was on the camera?  Was the camera set to AF: slow mode?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Allegedly, the 5Dii is similar to the AF in the 5D.  The A900 is allegedly slightly improved over the A700.  Here are Pop Photo's stats for the 5D and A700 AF.  Pop Photo switched to a graph system by the time the A700 was reviewed, so I did my best to show the approximate values:


5D:
EV  12:  .52    seconds
EV   7:  .62
EV   6:  .64
EV   3:  .77
EV   1:  .95
EV  -.5: 1.5
EV   -3:  NA


A700:
EV  12:   .24   seconds
EV   7:  ~.34
EV   6:  ~.36
EV   3:  ~.87
EV   1:  ~.85
EV -.5:  ~1.16
EV  -3:  ~1.39

   This might provide some idea of the performance of the two cameras AF, but I realize we don't know what tweaks the 5Dii and A900 have in relation to their older siblings.

[a href=\"http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/4724/camera-test-sony-alpha-700-vital-statistics-page3.html]http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/4724/camer...tics-page3.html[/url]
http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/1603/meet-...s-5d-page2.html
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innesfoto

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« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2008, 12:02:32 pm »

Very Interesting about the A900 AF.
I had a good long go on the A900, at Photokina under the hall lighting, and I can tell you the AF on the Sony is not good at all. I was a main Minolta dealer in London for nearly 20 years, and I can tell you this AF is next to no improvement on the 7D, The Minolta fit lenses are still by far the slowest focusing of the main brands.  
On paper you can make anything look good but in practice it is often something else.
I tried the 16-35mm 2.8 , the 24-70mm 2.8 and the 70-200mm 2.8 All of which where nice lenses well made and great optics, but the focus speed on the 70-200mm 2.8 was very slow, and not very accurate. the other two were better but no match for the Canon or Nikon systems.
Apart from that I thought the Sony was a really top grade Semi pro Camera, that handles very well and seems well put together with a very high spec, and certainly worth looking at as an alternative to the Canon.

Andy
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