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Author Topic: Looking for first MF digital system  (Read 2248 times)

Dan Wells

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Looking for first MF digital system
« on: September 25, 2008, 04:45:43 pm »

I'm a landscape and macro shooter moving from Canon to something else (could be Alpha 900, could be MF). I was almost decided on the A900 route (extra dynamic range, Zeiss glass, ergonomics, extra pixels) until I saw some of the used prices on MF gear and thought "I'll at least take a look at getting a used Mamiya and back combo". I could also look at new or refurbished gear if there was a good educational pricing opportunity - I teach photography at the University level, so I might qualify for a good deal.
 I shot medium format film for years (without autofocus), so I'm familiar with (and like)the slower working style in general, but I've never used one of the modern AF bodies seriously.  I'm assuming that any vaguely recent back, including a first-generation P30 or the like, has image quality that will blow a 1DsII out of the water... (notably more resolution, plus a couple extra stops of DR, is what I'm hoping for). I have a couple of questions that some experienced MF landscape shooter could answer...
First of all, I've seen a weight for the Mamiya 645AFD bodies that is pretty comparable to a big DSLR (almost four lbs - 1730 grams) - but it's not clear if (80mm) lens and (film) back are included in that weight. I'm guessing they are, because if they're not, the Mamiya is quite a bit heavier than a Hasselblad H2, which seems unlikely. I have found a weight that is clearly the H2 body only, but none that is clearly the Mamiya body only. If that does include a lens and back, the Mamiya is actually lighter than a 1DsII.
Second, will all of the Phase backs work nicely for landscape photography - Phase markets the P30 and P30+ specifically for fashion, but I can't figure out why? The microlenses mean that it isn't ideal on a view camera, but is that the only reason they call it a fashion shooter's back? I wish I could afford a P65+, but a used P30 seems more my budget!
I've been focusing on a Mamiya/Phase system for a couple of reasons (but am open to alternatives). One is that the Mamiya lenses are a great deal cheaper than Hasselblad lenses. The second is that Mamiya and Phase One seem to be working together these days. There appear to be three integrated systems out there right now (Mamiya/Phase, Hasselblad and Sinar/Leaf/Rollei), and the Sinar/Leaf Rollei system is presumably out due to price unless there is a SUPERB educator program - not much used gear to soften the blow. Hasselblad is a more reasonable option than the Sinar/Leaf/Rollei group, but a Hasselblad macro lens is nearly $4000 new.
What I'd want for a system is a body, back, normal lens, macro lens (which also tends to be a short tele) and wide lens. I shot the 50/80/150 mm combo on Hasselblad V for years until I couldn't justify the scanning any longer and went all digital. I don't need anything more than that, except that I'd like my long lens to be a macro lens. A zoom with the right range could replace two lenses, of course.
Let me know your thoughts on any of this stuff, and PM me if you have something to sell that might meet my needs...

                              -Dan
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Saša D. Karić

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Looking for first MF digital system
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2008, 05:03:41 pm »

Quote
Second, will all of the Phase backs work nicely for landscape photography - Phase markets the P30 and P30+ specifically for fashion, but I can't figure out why? The microlenses mean that it isn't ideal on a view camera, but is that the only reason they call it a fashion shooter's back? I wish I could afford a P65+, but a used P30 seems more my budget!

                              -Dan
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Look no further, here: [a href=\"http://www.ironcreekphotography.com/]Don Libby[/url] he uses P30+
and judging him I don't think you will be disappointed.
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Saša D. Karić

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Looking for first MF digital system
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2008, 05:06:42 pm »

Quote
Let me know your thoughts on any of this stuff, and PM me if you have something to sell that might meet my needs...

                              -Dan
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Second step, call these folks at [a href=\"http://www.captureintegration.com/]h e r e![/url]

and relax from then on.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 05:07:09 pm by Saša D. Karić »
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Morgan_Moore

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Looking for first MF digital system
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2008, 12:45:23 am »

I think the P30 has a phisically smaller chip too

makes a difference if you shoot wide

Also one of the beauties of DBacks is you can slot them on a view camera (Typically for macro and landscape) - the p30s not so good for that either

you may not use a view camera now but once you have the back you will surely start wanting to experiment

If you go MF I would get the right kit for your job - your dream set up - else you will still dream of a new setup !

P30 is of course a fantastic product

S
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 12:46:44 am by Morgan_Moore »
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

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Looking for first MF digital system
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2008, 01:54:51 am »

hi Dan,

you may have a look at the Sinar Hy6 65 (31 MPx) and it's new in-camera processing (DNGs and JPGs). Here:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=27565

Certainly an interesting option and workflow.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
I'm a landscape and macro shooter moving from Canon to something else (could be Alpha 900, could be MF). I was almost decided on the A900 route (extra dynamic range, Zeiss glass, ergonomics, extra pixels) until I saw some of the used prices on MF gear and thought "I'll at least take a look at getting a used Mamiya and back combo". I could also look at new or refurbished gear if there was a good educational pricing opportunity - I teach photography at the University level, so I might qualify for a good deal.
 I shot medium format film for years (without autofocus), so I'm familiar with (and like)the slower working style in general, but I've never used one of the modern AF bodies seriously.  I'm assuming that any vaguely recent back, including a first-generation P30 or the like, has image quality that will blow a 1DsII out of the water... (notably more resolution, plus a couple extra stops of DR, is what I'm hoping for). I have a couple of questions that some experienced MF landscape shooter could answer...
First of all, I've seen a weight for the Mamiya 645AFD bodies that is pretty comparable to a big DSLR (almost four lbs - 1730 grams) - but it's not clear if (80mm) lens and (film) back are included in that weight. I'm guessing they are, because if they're not, the Mamiya is quite a bit heavier than a Hasselblad H2, which seems unlikely. I have found a weight that is clearly the H2 body only, but none that is clearly the Mamiya body only. If that does include a lens and back, the Mamiya is actually lighter than a 1DsII.
Second, will all of the Phase backs work nicely for landscape photography - Phase markets the P30 and P30+ specifically for fashion, but I can't figure out why? The microlenses mean that it isn't ideal on a view camera, but is that the only reason they call it a fashion shooter's back? I wish I could afford a P65+, but a used P30 seems more my budget!
I've been focusing on a Mamiya/Phase system for a couple of reasons (but am open to alternatives). One is that the Mamiya lenses are a great deal cheaper than Hasselblad lenses. The second is that Mamiya and Phase One seem to be working together these days. There appear to be three integrated systems out there right now (Mamiya/Phase, Hasselblad and Sinar/Leaf/Rollei), and the Sinar/Leaf Rollei system is presumably out due to price unless there is a SUPERB educator program - not much used gear to soften the blow. Hasselblad is a more reasonable option than the Sinar/Leaf/Rollei group, but a Hasselblad macro lens is nearly $4000 new.
What I'd want for a system is a body, back, normal lens, macro lens (which also tends to be a short tele) and wide lens. I shot the 50/80/150 mm combo on Hasselblad V for years until I couldn't justify the scanning any longer and went all digital. I don't need anything more than that, except that I'd like my long lens to be a macro lens. A zoom with the right range could replace two lenses, of course.
Let me know your thoughts on any of this stuff, and PM me if you have something to sell that might meet my needs...

                              -Dan
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224367\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com

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Looking for first MF digital system
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2008, 05:34:55 am »

To answer some of your questions..

The Mamiya with 80mm, digital back, and batteries weighs ~2kg. It's a terrific camera and a very affordable setup if you pick up the body and lenses used.

If you want to use it on a large format camera I'd take a good look at the P25, I own it myself and I can tell you it produces amazing files. If long exposures are important to you it might be worth the extra cash for the P25+. Don't let the seemingly "low" resolution of 22Mp fool you, take some shots with it and you'll see what I mean. I'd personally pick it over a P30 any day of the week.
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tho_mas

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Looking for first MF digital system
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2008, 06:17:46 am »

Quote
...
Price wise a P20 for your already existing Hasselblad. Or maybe a P25.

31MP / 1.3crop: the 31MP backs have a crop of 1.3 (with regard to the 645 format). According to the crop your 50mm will work like a 67mm lens.

A note about the A900: the most overlooked feature is bulit in stablization. You definitely save two f stops in ISO! So if you need e.g. ISO1600 with a 5DMKII or 1DsMKIII you can use ISO400 with the A900 with all the lenses (if you don't need the shutterspeed according to fast moving objects in the secene, certainly). Image stabilization, the very fast Zeiss lenses and an absolutely great view finder (100% frame, 0,74 magnifiction, which is big) make the A900 worth a look.
As to the decission MFDB or DSLR... there is more to consider as just pixel resolution. MFDB is somewhat slow (frame rate, ISO). But the low ISO files are outstanding. DLSR (with CMOS) is somewhat cheap and soft in low ISO. But the speed is outstanding (frame rate, ISO).
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