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Author Topic: HCD lenses and H3d-60  (Read 10904 times)

jing q

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HCD lenses and H3d-60
« on: September 25, 2008, 01:17:55 am »

Someone please shed some light on this issue.
28mm and 35-90mm lenses are both supposedly for the 36mmx48mm sensors.
So what happens with their top of the light larger sensor?
Does this mean that the above lenses won't work on the H3D-60?
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mcfoto

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« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2008, 05:08:16 am »

Quote
Someone please shed some light on this issue.
28mm and 35-90mm lenses are both supposedly for the 36mmx48mm sensors.
So what happens with their top of the light larger sensor?
Does this mean that the above lenses won't work on the H3D-60?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi
It is for the FF 48mm sensor.

[a href=\"http://www.ephotozine.com/article/Hasselblad-HCD-4-5635-90mm-Aspherical-zoom-lens]http://www.ephotozine.com/article/Hasselbl...rical-zoom-lens[/url]
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Denis Montalbetti
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jing q

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HCD lenses and H3d-60
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2008, 06:12:32 am »

Quote
Hi
It is for the FF 48mm sensor.

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/Hasselbl...rical-zoom-lens
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224236\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

hi yes I expected that

I find the H3d 60 very attractive but then not having those lenses to back it up seems like a waste

35-90mm is a dream zoom range for me.
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Bernd B.

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« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2008, 10:10:07 pm »

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hi yes I expected that

I find the H3d 60 very attractive but then not having those lenses to back it up seems like a waste

35-90mm is a dream zoom range for me.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224242\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The H3D60 will automatically crop if used with an HCD lens.

Bernd
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mcfoto

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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2008, 12:51:35 am »

Quote
The H3D60 will automatically crop if used with an HCD lens.

Bernd
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224454\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi
If the H3D60 will crop using the 35-90 zoom, you would get the effective focal length but not be using all of the chip? Does this apply to the 28 mm lens as well? If so your image would be less than 60mp........more closer to a (50-55) mp capture??
   If this is the case then Phase one with the Mamiya 28mm will shoot a larger file being 60 mp. Since both Hasselblad & Phase are using the same chip from Dalsa?
  I have looked at the Hasselblad web site & have not seen any information about the H3D60 other than a release date of the 1stQ of 2009.
Thanks Denis
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 12:57:09 am by mcfoto »
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Denis Montalbetti
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klane

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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2008, 01:13:51 am »

if it auto crops your are better off getting the faster 50-110.
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gss

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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2008, 06:59:54 am »

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if it auto crops your are better off getting the faster 50-110.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225120\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The crop would make the 35-90 act like a 40-100.  There are probably quite a few who really want that wider focal length.
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wollom

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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2008, 07:57:42 am »

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The H3D60 will automatically crop if used with an HCD lens.

Bernd
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224454\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Seems a pity to crop in camera, there are various format shapes that would use different parts of the sensor.  Panoramic - 26.3mm x 53.9 mm Almost square - 40.4mm x 44mm etc.

Wollom
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Bernd B.

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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2008, 09:07:26 am »

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Seems a pity to crop in camera, there are various format shapes that would use different parts of the sensor.  Panoramic - 26.3mm x 53.9 mm Almost square - 40.4mm x 44mm etc.

Wollom
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225162\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Send a message to Hasselblad. Maybe they will accept your suggestion. Makes sense to me.

Bernd
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klane

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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2008, 02:51:40 pm »

OK good point, its still wider. Wasnt thinking on that one  
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David Grover / Capture One

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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2008, 03:13:56 am »

Ill add to this thread with some information regarding the HCD28, HCD35-90 and the H3D 60MP...

The Hasselblad HCD lens line (28mm, 35-90mm zoom) has been designed to deliver outstanding lens performance (high resolution, low lens errors) on a Medium Format sensor area, in a lens design that is relative compact and light. In the process of optimizing design for all the performance criteria Hasselblad has carefully chosen its design elements with the following logic.

We have chosen a target sensor format of 36 * 49mm for the optimization of the lens performance for the HCD lens line in order to achieve a compact design with fast focusing as well as high performance. Top performance is reached even with sensors larger than 36 * 49mm. The only restriction is that a marginal crop is introduced with the HCD28 and the HCD35-90 in 35 mm setting. On a full frame 60 Mpix camera, the crop will result in an effective pixel count of 55 Mpix and a focal length factor of about 1.1. This means that the HCD28 will be equal to a 31 mm lens and the HCD35-90 will be equal to a 38-90 mm.

We have chosen to allow a level of basic optical imperfections (color aberration, distortion and vignetting) within the capability for our DAC lens corrections to handle it afterwards. We can therefore make a better design compromise and concentrate on minimizing optical errors that cannot be corrected by DAC, for example edge to edge sharpness. The results will not be as good for film use, which we therefore have excluded.

Our estimate on benefits with regards to size, weight and price are as follows: Compared to using the original full 645 film format (41.5 * 56mm) we are able to deliver a lens design that is around 30% more compact, and 30-40% less expensive.

To support the achievements of Hasselblad’s HCD lens design please compare the HCD28mm with other Medium Format lenses of the same focal length. Check the image detail and lens performance at the edges. Add to the comparison that all HC/HCD lenses include internal AF motor (fast, accurate focus), central lens shutter (flash sync at shutter speeds up to 1/800), and manual focus override. The difference in price between the HCD28 and the main competitor’s product is currently a 40% advantage for the HCD28.



I spoke to our lens designer about this and even though the difference between a 49mm sensor and the 645 format 'seems' relatively small in terms of lens construction it is a big step.

Therefore our new zoom lens would be significantly larger, heavier and much more expensive if expanded to the 645 format.  So much so that its use would become unattractive and uneconomical.

You will notice though that with the 60MP sensor its effective length becomes 38-90 - the top end is not affected.  Using the HCD lenses with the H3D-60 will automatically crop the image.  No interaction is required by the user.

David


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David Grover
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jing q

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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2008, 03:29:29 am »

Actually that's a really attractive compromise.
Too bad you guys scrapped the whole trade-in solution, otherwise it would have been worth considering.
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jing q

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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2008, 03:32:20 am »

One more question,
Are you going to be focusing on HCD lenses in the future mainly? Or will other HC lenses be designed considering that the 49mm sensor is in the market.
the HCD lenses are great I'm sure but it prevents usage on the older H bodies which are still in heavy use with other manufacturers backs.
I would love to see a better quality 35mm HC lens made, I didn't think the performance on the 35mm was that great.
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David Grover / Capture One

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« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2008, 03:37:11 am »

Quote from: jing q
Actually that's a really attractive compromise.
Too bad you guys scrapped the whole trade-in solution, otherwise it would have been worth considering.

The price of a new camera is not that far removed from the old trade in price.  Plus you still keep your old system for back up or release it to the second hand market.

Still worth a thought.    

David


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David Grover
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David Grover / Capture One

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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2008, 03:40:12 am »

Quote from: jing q
One more question,
Are you going to be focusing on HCD lenses in the future mainly? Or will other HC lenses be designed considering that the 49mm sensor is in the market.
the HCD lenses are great I'm sure but it prevents usage on the older H bodies which are still in heavy use with other manufacturers backs.
I would love to see a better quality 35mm HC lens made, I didn't think the performance on the 35mm was that great.

Our lens range is upto 11 pieces now, plus extension tubes and a converter.  So not so many gaps.

We have some options on what to do next, so it is a matter of deciding what is priority.

David


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David Grover
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BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2008, 04:02:27 am »

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Ill add to this thread with some information regarding the HCD28, HCD35-90 and the H3D 60MP...

David,

Thks for these information. Very interesting.

Cheers,
Bernard

jing q

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« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2008, 04:21:48 am »

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
The price of a new camera is not that far removed from the old trade in price.  Plus you still keep your old system for back up or release it to the second hand market.

Still worth a thought.    

David

ah but the trade-in price I'm offered for a higher model is less than the cost of even the cheapest H cam.
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erick.boileau

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« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2008, 10:46:25 am »

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Ill add to this thread with some information regarding the HCD28, HCD35-90 and the H3D 60MP...
On a full frame 60 Mpix camera, the crop will result in an effective pixel count of 55 Mpix and a focal length factor of about 1.1. This means that the HCD28 will be equal to a 31 mm lens and the HCD35-90 will be equal to a 38-90 mm.
David
and what about a H3D 39 mp ?

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David Grover / Capture One

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« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2008, 11:06:16 am »

Quote from: erick.boileau
and what about a H3D 39 mp ?

The 39MP is 49mm sensor format so will not be cropped at any point.

David


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David Grover
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