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Author Topic: What Lightroom 2.0 needs.  (Read 7288 times)

dwdallam

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What Lightroom 2.0 needs.
« on: September 20, 2008, 02:57:39 am »

I've only been using LR for about a week and my first copy was 2.0, so I may have some of this wrong.

I do think LR needs better integration at the file level. Yes, the database method is best, but only if you also allow file manipulation at the file level. There is no batch rename as there is in Bridge. Nor is there integration with Photoshop tool, like Image Processor.

Also, I think it would increase the tools effectiveness to allow file level manipulation for zooming. Having set zoom points is aggravating.

Nor can you move and rename folders in LR, since it's working off a catalog file, not the file/folder level.

LR cost 1/3 what PS does. Is it asking too much to have file level capability? It would be nice to have LR use images that are available and then update the catalog when you close or while open, in the background.

In short, I'd like to see better file level/Photoshop integration. It seems like now I have three programs always open, PS, LR, and Bridge.

Or, as an alternative, I'd go for Bridge plus a catalog option to categorize and view images, like LR. Change ACR to show dual up before and after shots and that would be nice. Allow ACR to remain loaded while working in bridge for immediate edits at the RAW level. ACR REALLY needs a dual pane, before and after.

I'd also like to see a way to set defaults, such as Set Sharpening to 0 made simple.
A dialog box with setting would be nice. Save settings, Done. LR then automatically uses those settings with all current catalog images--such as set sharpening to 0.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 03:19:13 am by dwdallam »
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Jeremy Roussak

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What Lightroom 2.0 needs.
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2008, 03:41:40 am »

Quote
I've only been using LR for about a week and my first copy was 2.0, so I may have some of this wrong.

I do think LR needs better integration at the file level. Yes, the database method is best, but only if you also allow file manipulation at the file level. There is no batch rename as there is in Bridge. Nor is there integration with Photoshop tool, like Image Processor.

Also, I think it would increase the tools effectiveness to allow file level manipulation for zooming. Having set zoom points is aggravating.

Nor can you move and rename folders in LR, since it's working off a catalog file, not the file/folder level.

LR cost 1/3 what PS does. Is it asking too much to have file level capability? It would be nice to have LR use images that are available and then update the catalog when you close or while open, in the background.

In short, I'd like to see better file level/Photoshop integration. It seems like now I have three programs always open, PS, LR, and Bridge.

Or, as an alternative, I'd go for Bridge plus a catalog option to categorize and view images, like LR. Change ACR to show dual up before and after shots and that would be nice. Allow ACR to remain loaded while working in bridge for immediate edits at the RAW level. ACR REALLY needs a dual pane, before and after.

I'd also like to see a way to set defaults, such as Set Sharpening to 0 made simple.
A dialog box with setting would be nice. Save settings, Done. LR then automatically uses those settings with all current catalog images--such as set sharpening to 0.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222831\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think you need, to use an old abbreviation, to RTFM. LR has batch rename: hit F2 when in the Library module. It also has the ability to move and rename folders. You can easily accomplish "set sharpening to 0" using Sync settings in the Develop module.

LR has deficiencies, but they're not those you identify.

Jeremy
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dwdallam

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What Lightroom 2.0 needs.
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2008, 03:46:21 am »

Quote
I think you need, to use an old abbreviation, to RTFM. LR has batch rename: hit F2 when in the Library module. It also has the ability to move and rename folders. You can easily accomplish "set sharpening to 0" using Sync settings in the Develop module.

LR has deficiencies, but they're not those you identify.

Jeremy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222833\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have been reading it and it's quite cryptic.

I've also been trying to tell LR NOT to apply sharpening automatically, but still no luck yet. I've created a preset with default settings and no sharpening. I don't want to sync the settings. I want to tell LR to NOT auto sharpen any image ever.

Thanks for the tip on folder and file level manipulation.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 03:51:56 am by dwdallam »
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Jeremy Roussak

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What Lightroom 2.0 needs.
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2008, 03:50:05 am »

Quote
I have been reading it and it's quite cryptic.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222835\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Get a book. I've found Evening's to be very good (and, like LR itself, v2 is a good deal better than v1!).

Jeremy
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dwdallam

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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2008, 04:01:28 am »

Quote
Get a book. I've found Evening's to be very good (and, like LR itself, v2 is a good deal better than v1!).

Jeremy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222836\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I take it you don't know how to turn off sharpening in LR2 globally? I created a new catalog and imported using a preset. Seems kinda clunky. No, it is clunky. There should be a way to easily tell LR not to use automatic adjustments of choice.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 05:01:50 am by dwdallam »
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madmanchan

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« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2008, 09:16:19 am »

Two options:

1. Set LR sharpening Amount slider to zero and create a preset. When you import images via the Import dialog, apply that preset. Then any new images you import will automatically have zero sharpening.

2. Set LR sharpening Amount slider to zero, hold down Option/Alt key. In Develop module, in the Right Panel, notice how the Reset button turns into a Set Default... button. Click it. Now you have just setup a new camera-specific default. So any new images you import in the future for this camera will have sharpening set to zero.
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Eric Chan

Schewe

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What Lightroom 2.0 needs.
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2008, 02:07:56 pm »

Quote
I've only been using LR for about a week and my first copy was 2.0, so I may have some of this wrong.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222831\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Aside form having a lot of this wrong...you posted in the wrong forum. There's a whole forum for Lightroom where people who are using Lightroom post. Lightroom really doesn't have much to do with Digital Cameras, Backs and Shooting Techniques, does it?
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dwdallam

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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2008, 04:16:03 am »

Quote
Two options:

1. Set LR sharpening Amount slider to zero and create a preset. When you import images via the Import dialog, apply that preset. Then any new images you import will automatically have zero sharpening.

2. Set LR sharpening Amount slider to zero, hold down Option/Alt key. In Develop module, in the Right Panel, notice how the Reset button turns into a Set Default... button. Click it. Now you have just setup a new camera-specific default. So any new images you import in the future for this camera will have sharpening set to zero.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222857\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I figured out number two. My problem is that if you have already imported 15000 images, you now get to import them again to get the No Sharpening effect. That's kinda clunky. It would be nice to have a way to "Apply new defaults to entire catalog."
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 04:16:25 am by dwdallam »
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dwdallam

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What Lightroom 2.0 needs.
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2008, 04:19:08 am »

Quote
Aside form having a lot of this wrong...you posted in the wrong forum. There's a whole forum for Lightroom where people who are using Lightroom post. Lightroom really doesn't have much to do with Digital Cameras, Backs and Shooting Techniques, does it?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222899\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I looked for a forum, but must have missed it. Thanks for the head's up. Yes, I figured I had lots of it wrong, but a sizable portion of my comments on catalog and live file capability are worth a look. For instance, a way to tell Lightroom to work on images at the file level, like Bridge, and then and only then, export to catalog. That way you have a file browser and a catalog type database to work with.

One other problem is that I hate having to work at preset zoom levels. I find one too small for detail work and one too large to comparison work, and so on.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 04:19:57 am by dwdallam »
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dwdallam

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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2008, 04:26:05 am »

Quote
p

But spend a lot of time. There are so many settings buried in the app, it takes time.

I am willing to hang in there with LR 2, it has made the back end of file prep smoother. My one main complaint would be performance, it seems to feel slower and slower with some new updates/upgrades. It really does require a fast machines. My G5 is less than 3 years and doesn't mesh well with LR 2 for responsoveness yet works fine with all other current apps I use.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222919\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I can see it does take time. I thought I was just being dense, since I have a very good grasp and workflow using ACR Bridge and PS. ACR seems barren now compared to LR, and the dual up comparison mode is golden.

I really can't get use to the brush tool for much other than large burning and dodging etc of larger areas, like a whole side of a face, landscape applications--which it works really nicely. For more detail work I need PS tools.

I use a custom built AMD 4800 2.4Ghz dual core 64 bit processor with 4GB of system RAm  which is just now 3 years old, and it's very speedy for me. I have no problem with its speed.
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madmanchan

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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2008, 09:31:29 am »

Quote
I figured out number two. My problem is that if you have already imported 15000 images, you now get to import them again to get the No Sharpening effect. That's kinda clunky. It would be nice to have a way to "Apply new defaults to entire catalog."
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222990\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No. You don't need to re-import them again, at all, ever.

Just find all your 15000 images (Library module, Left Panel, click on All Photographs), select them all, right-click on one of them and choose your "No Sharpening" preset that you've created.

Done.
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Eric Chan

wolfnowl

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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2008, 11:08:29 am »

BTW, the best place to file bug reports and requests for new Lightroom features is here:
http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform  The form is e-mailed to the Inbox of Tom Hogarty at Adobe.

Mike.
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BFoto

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What Lightroom 2.0 needs.
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2008, 01:06:41 pm »

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I take it you don't know how to turn off sharpening in LR2 globally? I created a new catalog and imported using a preset. Seems kinda clunky. No, it is clunky. There should be a way to easily tell LR not to use automatic adjustments of choice.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222837\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

But why would you want to turn off the sharpening?

Whats the reasoning in your workflow?

dwdallam

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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2008, 10:19:57 pm »

Quote
But why would you want to turn off the sharpening?

Whats the reasoning in your workflow?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223050\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, for one, if you have an image that has some noise it it, sharpening just makes it worse. For two, it's been a long standing work flow procedure to sharpen last. I know there is some new information that explains that you need "some" sharpening before you start to work on a  file. But my experience shows that when I turn off sharpening in ACR (Lightroom uses the same engine) and do the sharpening last, the result is nicer, generally. For example, in portraits, I don't want every skin pit showing. I actually like the look when it comes out of the camera for skin tones for many situations. Also, PS gives me more control over sharpening and noise reduction than does LR or ACR, although I always use about 25% noise reduction in LR and ACR. This work flow seems to work well for me, but I'm always open to new ideas.

Thanks for all of the good information.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 10:21:16 pm by dwdallam »
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dwdallam

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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2008, 10:23:23 pm »

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No. You don't need to re-import them again, at all, ever.

Just find all your 15000 images (Library module, Left Panel, click on All Photographs), select them all, right-click on one of them and choose your "No Sharpening" preset that you've created.

Done.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223020\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I tried to do that but thought I was probably doing it wrong. I mean that was how I intuited it should or would work. Thanks.

Also, I think I saw an option to automatically import new files LR finds in a folder (Root) that you specify. Is this correct?

Also, just to let all you know, I am stuck in Lightroom. I can't seem to go back to ACR and Bridge now. I'm glad I took the time to start getting to know it. I do wish Adobe would integrate LR into ACR however as a module, like ACR, that is not stand alone. It seems like a rip off to expect people to pay 600.00 for PS and get an inferior application for processing RAW files, especially when LR costs 1/2 as much as the full PS application. Just doesn't seem right.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 10:26:39 pm by dwdallam »
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dwdallam

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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2008, 11:18:53 pm »

Quote
Photoshop isn't just for photoraphers, in fact I would guess that there are equal or more people as non-photographers using Photoshop who benefit from having Bridge and ACR if and when needed. For all the "insight" we photographers have, we seem to have blinders on as if we are the only users of all this stuff. Lightroom is most certainly intended for photographers, most other Adobe apps are used by many other professions and commercial arts.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223159\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


That's true. i used to do websites and graphics and have always used PS. That doesn't mean that LR at 300.00US is a fair price when PS costs 600 and is a much more complex program. If you buy PS you should get a discount on LR I think.
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dwdallam

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« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2008, 12:14:16 am »

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LR is pretty complex. PS has had 17 years to get to where it is now. LR is under 2 years old excluding betas. LR is probably sold in lower quantities than PS but still requires a lot of development and we're getting updates and upgrades at a very accelerated pace more so than PS has ever had.

I paid full price for PS in 2001 when I moved over to Macs. Since then I'm only paying for upgrades and not every time. What I do notice is that LR and Bridge/ACR are very tied together in concurrent updates for seamless use that for some people, like myself, to keep with a PS, Bridge, LR workflow, you need to have the most recent versions or at most maintain equivalent versions for Bridge/ACR and LR to be able to work together. The moment CS4 is out, the current run for ACR will cease which sucks. Forced upgrade to CS4 to keep LR 2 and ACR concurrent.

Software costs every year is just part of the business.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223166\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It would also make our lives better if Lightroom was included in PS, as far as updates and program swapping is concerned. Well, even just some of LR basic functions, like side by side comparisons when adjusting RAW files and a catalog option in bridge. Something along those lines.
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madmanchan

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« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2008, 09:25:31 am »

There's a special PS + LR bundle you can get. Basically if you pay an extra $300 you can get LR for free.

 
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Eric Chan

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« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2008, 11:09:34 am »

Another wish re the sharpening settings:  Yes, I can now set my sharpening to 0 in LR and save it as a default.  However, the great choice from Bridge is still not available as far as I can tell: the choice of showing the sharpening only in the preview, but using none in the conversion from RAW.  

I had found that extremely helpful in Bridge.
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