RAW Smart Objects, anyone?

[teddillard]

I've been deep into using RAW Smart Objects for, well, since they first burst forth...  could that have been over a couple years ago already?  woof.  

Anyway, I teach the workflow at a few schools, we're just wrapping up the latest book, the Smart Object Pipeline, and I'd love to hear some opinions and discussion about the whole thing.  At this point, I'm so deep into it I can't imagine working any other way...  I literally have to stop and think how to do something if I'm not using Smart Objects and Smart Filters.  There are a few tips and cautions, (notably, the "Rosenholtz-Sanchez Effect" named after my precocious students who shot holes in one thing I was claiming... heh.) but essentially it's a complete package, soup-to-nuts.  

Anybody out there using this stuff all the time?  Is it just me?

[madmanchan]

It's a very reasonable workflow. Very powerful to be able to go back and change settings later.

[Tim Gray]

Certainly a major step forward, but all good things come to an end when you need a new pixel bearing layer in the stack.

[teddillard]

Certainly a major step forward, but all good things come to an end when you need a new pixel bearing layer in the stack.
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...not sure what you mean.  Can you elaborate?

[Tim Gray]

Try this... open an image as a smart object.  Float a new layer using (PC) Ctrl alt shift e

Go back to the smart object and edit however you want - the changes will not be apparent in the new layer.  As soon as you have a pixel bearing layer, as opposed to an adjustment layer, any changes under that layer, smart object or otherwise, will not be passed into the pixel bearing layer.  Of course you can let some "leak" into that layer by changing the opacity, but that's a different issue.

Here's an example in my work flow.  I open the image then create a shadow highlights layer as a smart object (I could just as easily open the image as a smart object from the beginning).  Eventually, after 4 or 5 intervening adjustment layers,  I want to apply a "local contrast" usm of 20 50 0 to the image, to do that I need to have a pixel layer against which to apply the USM.  I float a new layer to the top of the stack and apply the USM to that layer.  At that point any changes to the underlying smart objects (or adjustment layers) will have no impact on the top layer.  I've seen fairly complex workflows predicated on the requirement to float a new consolidated layer several times during the editing process (eg: Vincent Versace's, Welcome to OZ).  If I recall correctly he refers to that useful shortcut as "the claw"

If I'm missing a trick, I hope someone will point me in the right direction...

[teddillard]

Try this... open an image as a smart object.  Float a new layer using (PC) Ctrl alt shift e

Go back to the smart object and edit however you want - the changes will not be apparent in the new layer.  As soon as you have a pixel bearing layer, as opposed to an adjustment layer, any changes under that layer, smart object or otherwise, will not be passed into the pixel bearing layer.  Of course you can let some "leak" into that layer by changing the opacity, but that's a different issue.

Here's an example in my work flow.  I open the image then create a shadow highlights layer as a smart object (I could just as easily open the image as a smart object from the beginning).  Eventually, after 4 or 5 intervening adjustment layers,  I want to apply a "local contrast" usm of 20 50 0 to the image, to do that I need to have a pixel layer against which to apply the USM.  I float a new layer to the top of the stack and apply the USM to that layer.  At that point any changes to the underlying smart objects (or adjustment layers) will have no impact on the top layer.  I've seen fairly complex workflows predicated on the requirement to float a new consolidated layer several times during the editing process (eg: Vincent Versace's, Welcome to OZ).  If I recall correctly he refers to that useful shortcut as "the claw"

If I'm missing a trick, I hope someone will point me in the right direction...
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ahh...  I got ya.  

I was handling those issues in a similar, equally, well, inelegant way.  (I don't think there is really an "elegant" solution for that...) but then I just dove into the deep water, I guess.  I do all my USM work on each visible part of the layers, as Smart Objects...  they then are "Smart Filters", right, which you can go back and amend later.  

I don't really do any global sharpening, just on the spots that need it, so I can hit each area selectively, masking the filter and such...  all my cloning and healing likewise.  

You can start with a "spotted" Smart Object and just keep jamming copies of it up.  (Layer>Smart Objects>New Smart Object via Copy, if memory serves...  I've made a keyboard shortcut for it, so don't do it manually anymore.)  It will copy all the attributes, so you can take advantage of that...

As long as you can live totally in the Smart Object, you're ok.   Here's a peek at the madness that is my workflow...  [a href=\"http://www.teddillard.com/2008/08/smart-objects-gone-wild.html]http://www.teddillard.com/2008/08/smart-ob...-gone-wild.html[/url]

...you will, if you look carefully, see a couple of rasterized layers there, too.

[Tim Gray]

So that's an interesting approach, keep all the filters at the bottom as part of the smart object.

Doing a/b comparisons is a bit of a pain due to the time it takes to re-render the smart objects.  I guess I could take before and after snapshots and a/b those.

One of my other "last steps" is to tweak the luminosity of the colors, and rather than using a hsl adj layer, I dup the layer, mode luminosity, convert to BW and adjust the luminosity sliders.  I guess I could accomplish the same thing with a Hue Sat adj layer - is there any difference between an HSL adj layer and the Convert to BW method?

Maybe I should buy your book

[teddillard]

So that's an interesting approach, keep all the filters at the bottom as part of the smart object.

Doing a/b comparisons is a bit of a pain due to the time it takes to re-render the smart objects.  I guess I could take before and after snapshots and a/b those.

One of my other "last steps" is to tweak the luminosity of the colors, and rather than using a hsl adj layer, I dup the layer, mode luminosity, convert to BW and adjust the luminosity sliders.  I guess I could accomplish the same thing with a Hue Sat adj layer - is there any difference between an HSL adj layer and the Convert to BW method?

Maybe I should buy your book
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heh...  it ain't out yet.  May, 09, I guess...  it's now in the hands of my editor (an I'm a man who NEEDS an editor...)  But honestly, it was really exciting to put together.  I had an actual eureka moment when I was, like, maybe Adobe has something here..  

not quite sure I'm getting your process...  let me take a look.  Guinness and ribs are up, I do have priorities...  

[teddillard]

So that's an interesting approach, keep all the filters at the bottom as part of the smart object.

Doing a/b comparisons is a bit of a pain due to the time it takes to re-render the smart objects.  I guess I could take before and after snapshots and a/b those.

One of my other "last steps" is to tweak the luminosity of the colors, and rather than using a hsl adj layer, I dup the layer, mode luminosity, convert to BW and adjust the luminosity sliders.  I guess I could accomplish the same thing with a Hue Sat adj layer - is there any difference between an HSL adj layer and the Convert to BW method?

Maybe I should buy your book
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well, the Guinness and ribs didn't help...  I guess I'd have to see your layers to try to get what you're doing.  All I can really add is that the HSL tab in Camera RAW is really powerful, and, I'd guess, if you could build using that into your process rather than an adjustment layer, you'll be better off.  

...a guess, mind you, but based on the overall advantages of the "non-destructive" nature of the RAW process and Smart Objects etc etc.

[teddillard]

Float a new layer using (PC) Ctrl alt shift e...

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For those following along...
...this is the "Merge Visible" step, by the way.  The Mac shortcut is Apple/Option/Shift/e, and the manual method is to first hold down Option (gotta do that before you even select the options...), then go to the Layers options...  select Merge Visible.  Then you can release the Option.

This makes a rasterized layer of everything under it, without flattening your image layers.  You've got to use this for whenever you need to do something that Smart Objects can't handle... like the Liquify, for example.

See the screen shot of my skinny kid at the beach.

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