advice for a shooting scheme

[user]

hello

I need to photograph an area of 8.5x11 inches as clearly as possible (let's say a A4 page area) which means:

a) I need illumination that must be rich and it must be homogeneous without external glares and shadows and without diffusing the light out of the photographed area.
b) I need as less distortion as possible (barrel distortion, zoom distortion, skew distortion, any)

in order to achieve this, I am planning to construct this scheme, which shows apyramid, where at the top of the pyramid are placed the camera and a light source, the base of the pyramid is from a 8.5x11 inches non-reflective glass, the sides of the pyramid are cased from a material or something that doesn't allow the light to go outside the pyramid and diffuses the light to become homogeneous and concentrates the light to the base:

http://i37.tinypic.com/e6u8o7.png

1. Is there any material that I can use to build the above construction?
Some kind of metal would be nice, but I need to get the parts in the exact dimensions as I need them, they need to be sturdy and I should be able to join them at home.
Or do you know any construction that is already as the one at the scheme?

2. What kind of diffusive material should I use for the sides of the pyramid?
Rhis is a diffusion material to case the sides of the pyramid:
http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/produk...ige.asp?nr=3439
Do you suggest any better way to case the sides of the pyramid?

3. What kind of material should be best for the base of the pyramid?
Is it possible the glass to be illuminating and illuminate the object
below it? Is it possible the glass to magnify the below subject without
distorting it or the camera zoom should be ok (however it distorts)?
This is a kind of self-illuminating glass, to use as the base of the pyramid
http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/produk...ige.asp?nr=5617
http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/produk...ige.asp?nr=2492
Will it work better than placing a bulb at the top of the pyramid?
But it should not illuminate the page from below, but from above (I am not sure how this works), so it it does not work like this, I will put a simple acrylic glass at the base of the pyramid, or do you suggest something better?

Last, what kind of camera should be used? which settings? macro mode? (I am
looking for a camera that will be placed as near as possible to the
object in order to minimize distortion)
And, where should I position the light? any idea? at the sides of the pyramid or at the top of it?

Thank you very much!

[Schewe]

What you want is a copystand with lights set to a 45º angle off the plane of the lens...you REALLY don't want lights towards the top since those will reflect into the front surface. If reflectance is an issue, you can mount polarizing filters over the lights as well as the camera lens and adjust the bias to remove any reflections. Ideally, the light distance should be set so that the fall off is compensated by the lights on the other side. A pair of stripe lights would give more even illumination...unless you can mount a couple of lights on either side.

A macro lens is what you'll want to shoot with as this will give you the optimal lens performance for 1:1-1:10. The focal length is up to you...but longer is often better.

This is all a pretty standard copywork setup. It ain't rocket science.

[user]

What you want is a copystand with lights set to a 45º angle off the plane of the lens...you REALLY don't want lights towards the top since those will reflect into the front surface. If reflectance is an issue, you can mount polarizing filters over the lights as well as the camera lens and adjust the bias to remove any reflections. Ideally, the light distance should be set so that the fall off is compensated by the lights on the other side. A pair of stripe lights would give more even illumination...unless you can mount a couple of lights on either side.

A macro lens is what you'll want to shoot with as this will give you the optimal lens performance for 1:1-1:10. The focal length is up to you...but longer is often better.

This is all a pretty standard copywork setup. It ain't rocket science.
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thanks for your reply

as for the copystand, I suppose you mean something like this:
[a href=\"http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/images/produkte/5453.jpg]http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/images/produkte/5453.jpg[/url]
http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/images/pr...e_hq/5904_2.jpg
http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/images/pr...e_hq/5904_5.jpg

this however will not work well, because it will not keep flat a page from a book and it will be awkward to turn pages and put them there, not to say that it will damage the spine of the book

moreover, there will be a problem, because external light of the room will affect the photo (reflections, shadows, etc from the room light and the light from the illuminator will be wasted in the room)

[Schewe]

thanks for your reply

as for the copystand, I suppose you mean something like this:

Yep...

this however will not work well, because it will not keep flat a page from a book and it will be awkward to turn pages and put them there, not to say that it will damage the spine of the book

Well, that's the challenge ya know...but the copystand you mentioned seems like it was designed to do what you want to do. As for it being a pain to turn pages, DOH...ANY sort of copywork from books will be a pain. Nature of the beast...

moreover, there will be a problem, because external light of the room will affect the photo (reflections, shadows, etc from the room light and the light from the illuminator will be wasted in the room)

Uh, well, due to inverse fall off, the main lights of the copystand (being so much closer than the rest of the room) will take care of that. See, ya just got to turn off the room lights...

Look, you can try to build something yourself, but the odds are, after building it and testing the lights, you'll end up with something very, very close to the copystand pictured...but if you want to reinvent the wheel, go ahead...

[user]

As for it being a pain to turn pages, DOH...ANY sort of copywork from books will be a pain. Nature of the beast...

it's not that it's a pain to turn the pages, it's that having the book at this position:
http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/images/pr...e_hq/5904_2.jpg
will damage it's spine

the book must be opened the maximum at 90 degrees in order to shoot a single A4 page at once

moreover the page I am shooting must be flattened (being totaly flat reduces skew distortion)

[ruraltrekker]

it's not that it's a pain to turn the pages, it's that having the book at this position:
http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/images/pr...e_hq/5904_2.jpg
will damage it's spine

the book must be opened the maximum at 90 degrees in order to shoot a single A4 page at once

moreover the page I am shooting must be flattened (being totaly flat reduces skew distortion)
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And this setup will work with the copy stand lighting scheme. Light leaves a surface at the same angle that it enters, so if it goes in at 45 degrees it reflects out at 45 degrees. You are going to be at 90 degrees so no glare or reflections (at least from the lighting - you will need to be in an absolutely dark room so that the "room" doesn't show up in your glass cover). Your lighting contraption is going to show big time in the glass, btw.

As has been stated, the 45 degree lighting for copy work is a long time proven way to shoot flat objects. There really is no other way.

Also shooting a book, as Mr. Schewe has stated, is just a pain in the ass process. The setup you have for getting the pages flat is ideal but it is going to be a long and tedious process to shoot the entire collection of pages. I think I would go nuts doing what you are about to do. I hope it is a good book!

Ken

[user]

thanks for your reply

is there any copystand like this:
http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/images/produkte/5453.jpg
but with the base being transparent, of glass?

if not, I am going to make a copystand, using a glass as the base, two lights with arms, and the camera stand/arm

do you know any parts that will work and will be cheap? (the above mentioned copystand costs 1K USD!)

last, will I need a diffuser or the 45 angle set up will diffuse properly the light homogenously in the whole A4 area? there really must not be shadows at the edges

thanks

[ruraltrekker]

If I was shooting this I would use the following:

1) I would configure a base like you gave example of using a frame that has the depth for the book in question, with the frame supporting the glass perpenidular to the camera axis. As your example showed, having differnt thickness of foam for the book so that you get the flat contact with the glass (this will of course change as you make your way through your book - so you will need many thickness opf the foam).

2)  for lighting two lights of your choice (mine would be flash heads with parabolic reflectors) at 45 degrees. Use a light meter to measure the area you will position the book in and move heads so that you get even illumination across the shoot surface - you want it to be 1/10th of a stop or less in any given place. In my case I would have a shoot table (a low one) for the book and use light stands for the heads (lights). You WILL NOT need diffusion and there will be no shadows on the flat surface, though you will have open shadows if you shoot the book with the background showing.

3) Now just position your camera using a camera stand over the book. A 50mm macro/micro lens will be just fine for the size you are shooting. A 100mm is just going to increase the shoot distance without any other benefit.

The real bugger for you is keeping the glass clean, both from any fuzz in the book and your fingers/exc. Cotton gloves wil  aid but you will need some air to blow as you go.

Remember, you need a dark room to shoot through the glass - if you have to build a tent out of black to contain your set.

hope this helps.

Ken

[user]

thank you very much

is there any suggestion for specific quality gear (not that much expensive as the others)

lights/flashes and their holders
camera holder
glass base

thanks

[user]

thank you very much

is there any suggestion for specific quality gear (not that much expensive as the others)

lights/flashes and their holders
camera holder
glass base

thanks
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anyone please ?

[framah]

Sorry, but his whole thing sounds like you are way over your head with this.

 Based on the questions you asked, you have no equipment... including camera or lens or lights or stand or anything else and you still feel qualified to do a proper job of this.  For all the money you should spend to do it right, you might as well hire someone who actually does it for a living.

From the sounds of it, odds are you probably won't get the images  right and just might damage the book in the process.

...for what it's worth.