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Author Topic: Widest Gamut Luster paper for Z3100?  (Read 6552 times)

karrphoto

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Widest Gamut Luster paper for Z3100?
« on: August 26, 2008, 03:31:11 am »

I'm going to be doing a 2 month trip of the southwest in October/November and when I return I'll have a ton of very colorful images of the southwest.   Beyond going by what a rep for a company has to say or a sales person at a store, are there any hard facts about the widest gamuts of papers?

Now, from my understanding Glossy typically has the widest, but I so am not a glossy person.  But if it's that significant I'll do glossy and spray it with satiin ECO spray.

And I guess I should say DMax, not Gamut.. but you should know what I mean.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 03:45:03 am by karrphoto »
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brianrybolt

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Widest Gamut Luster paper for Z3100?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2008, 05:06:53 am »

Quote
I'm going to be doing a 2 month trip of the southwest in October/November and when I return I'll have a ton of very colorful images of the southwest.   Beyond going by what a rep for a company has to say or a sales person at a store, are there any hard facts about the widest gamuts of papers?

Now, from my understanding Glossy typically has the widest, but I so am not a glossy person.  But if it's that significant I'll do glossy and spray it with satiin ECO spray.

And I guess I should say DMax, not Gamut.. but you should know what I mean.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217255\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What printer are you using?

Ron Steinberg

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Widest Gamut Luster paper for Z3100?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2008, 02:11:56 pm »

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What printer are you using?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217264\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've been told that the HP Premium Satin Instant Dry has the largest gamut and Dmax on that printer. I've been very happy with that paper on my Z3100, has a very nice texture that is more subtle than Epson lustre.

Ron
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neil snape

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Widest Gamut Luster paper for Z3100?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2008, 04:24:16 pm »

Quote
I've been told that the HP Premium Satin Instant Dry has the largest gamut and Dmax on that printer. I've been very happy with that paper on my Z3100, has a very nice texture that is more subtle than Epson lustre.

Ron
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217352\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually it's High Gloss PRoofing that has a huge gamut. Dmax on the Z is pretty much equal on most papers , well photo media and PK , matte papers and MK that is.

I just posted my review on Hahnemuhle's new cotton rag baryta which has just as much Dmax as ID Satin and a heck of a lot better image quality referenced to darkroom printing.
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rdonson

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Widest Gamut Luster paper for Z3100?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2008, 06:11:40 pm »

FWIW I took Neil's recommendation months ago and bought a roll of the HP Professional High-Gloss Contract Proofing Paper and I've been very happy with it.  It's resin coated and thin and a true bargain in price.  The color is amazing.  I'm using it for sports posters and not fine art though.
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Regards,
Ron

Geoff Wittig

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Widest Gamut Luster paper for Z3100?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2008, 09:05:54 pm »

Quote
I'm going to be doing a 2 month trip of the southwest in October/November and when I return I'll have a ton of very colorful images of the southwest.   Beyond going by what a rep for a company has to say or a sales person at a store, are there any hard facts about the widest gamuts of papers?

Now, from my understanding Glossy typically has the widest, but I so am not a glossy person.  But if it's that significant I'll do glossy and spray it with satiin ECO spray.

And I guess I should say DMax, not Gamut.. but you should know what I mean.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217255\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It helps to specify the printer when you ask about available paper gamuts, as it differs from printer to printer depending on the inkset and dithering algorithms.
I've been comparing gamuts of various papers for the HP Z3100 recently. Microsoft has a free downloadable (Windows) applet that diagrams and compares two different ICC profile gamuts at the same time, as a 3-D rotatable map. Macs have something similar, and there are a bunch of higher-end ($) applications that go into greater detail. The difference between one paper's gamut and another are immediately obvious using this tool. The gamut of HP's Pro satin is excellent, and exceeds that of Epson's luster paper on the Z3100. Harman's gloss FB AL is noticeably larger yet, but I didn't like the hard gloss and had roller mark issues with the paper. The gamut for Epson's pro printers tends to be a bit larger in the dark/saturated regions on a given paper compared to the HP, which instead tends to have a bigger gamut in the blues/greens and lighter colors.

I would bet that it'll be difficult to beat the gamut of Epson's luster or premium semigloss papers printing on an Epson 7880-generation printer. For intense warm colors like fall foliage I would expect the Epson gamut to beat that of the HP's. I have no experience with Canon's printers.

Finally, gamut may not matter quite as much as you expect. Most real-world colors are going to fall comfortably within the gamut of any relatively recent photo inkjet on a luster paper. Screaming orange-red-yellow may stress the printer's capabilities, but it's just as easy to overcook the colors and end up with something cartoonishly garish.
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neil snape

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Widest Gamut Luster paper for Z3100?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2008, 06:37:55 am »

I don't see the Pro Satin having all that much gamut but it does have a very nice surface, and prints as it should on Z printers without problems .
I just compared three profiles in Colorthink, the Hahnemuhle new Baryta Photo Rag, Pro Satin , and  Harman FA AL, all profiles on the 9180 HP.

Harman is not as large a gamut as Pro Satin, neither are as large as Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta.
Where Harman looks great is when you have enough UV component to move the light end colours and paper base into a very bright extended viewing condition that other papers do not come close.

As always , and as you say, it's the combination that make the overall gamut, D range, so what I write above are limited to HP 8 ink pigments. Yet knowing the character of Epson and Canon one could expect results a bit better on other inks, or with the Z 3100 inkset.
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garyfcampbell

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Widest Gamut Luster paper for Z3100?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2008, 06:14:00 pm »

Neil,

Very nice review of the Hahneuhle photo rag Baryta paper, I'm motivated to try it,

thanks
Gary Campbell
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Xanthor

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Widest Gamut Luster paper for Z3100?
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2008, 01:47:47 am »

Quote from: neil snape
Actually it's High Gloss PRoofing that has a huge gamut. Dmax on the Z is pretty much equal on most papers , well photo media and PK , matte papers and MK that is.

I just posted my review on Hahnemuhle's new cotton rag baryta which has just as much Dmax as ID Satin and a heck of a lot better image quality referenced to darkroom printing.

I did a search for wide color gammut and found this topic.  It was interesting to see these comments.  When I first got the printer back in May I ordered a bunch of different kinds of paper and this is what I wound up using for all the "poster" type stuff.  Even to the point I tell customers its "poster paper".  They tend to relate to that more than "Contract proofing paper" - once this old lady's eye's got real big and she said "I have to sign a contract?"  LOL!  So thats when poster paper became official.   I just wish it came in a 42" roll :-)

Thanks for the review on the Baryta as I too am now considering to try this paper.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2008, 01:49:59 am by Xanthor »
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Geoff Wittig

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Widest Gamut Luster paper for Z3100?
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2008, 10:36:30 am »

Quote from: Xanthor
I did a search for wide color gammut and found this topic.  It was interesting to see these comments.  When I first got the printer back in May I ordered a bunch of different kinds of paper and this is what I wound up using for all the "poster" type stuff.  Even to the point I tell customers its "poster paper".  They tend to relate to that more than "Contract proofing paper" - once this old lady's eye's got real big and she said "I have to sign a contract?"  LOL!  So thats when poster paper became official.   I just wish it came in a 42" roll :-)

Thanks for the review on the Baryta as I too am now considering to try this paper.

It always surprises me how widely opinions diverge on the image quality or fine art potential of various papers. What one person loves, someone else trashes as totally unacceptable. Obviously there's no accounting for artistic taste.

I've mapped out color gamuts for many of the fine art papers for the Z3100 using Chromix Colorthink, trying both manufacturer's canned profiles and those I made with the built-in spectro. I have not found any paper with a better gamut than HP's professional satin. Hanhemuhle's photo rag pearl and photo rag Baryta (and HP's Baryte satin for that matter) have a slightly wider gamut in the very light end of the gamut space, but HP pro satin is much better in the shadow regions. Interestingly Hahnemuhle's canned profile for Photo rag baryta maps out to a gamut quite a bit wider than the profile I made with the built-in spectro, but it yields truly awful color with mediocre saturation and a distinct blue color cast. Hahnemuhle Photo rag satin to my surprise has a much, much narrower color gamut than the above papers; yet for many images that don't depend upon saturated gamut, it's a lovely paper.

Then there's the totally subjective issue of surface texture and 'feel'. I really like HP Pro satin's surface texture, which is a very subtle and rather smooth soft gloss. On the other hand, it feels like a piece of plastic in your hand. Harman gloss FB AI has an extremely glossy surface that I really don't like at all, though others like it a lot. Hahnemuhle Photo rag pearl has the classic photo rag surface texture- a subtle eggshell texture that works very well for large prints, but can be a bit too obvious or intrusive for smaller prints. Oddly enough Hahnemuhle Photo rag baryta has a completely different surface, with a semigloss sheen and a fine stipple that strikes me as a nicer variant of Epson's premium luster. All the Hahnemuhle Photo rag variants of course have a wonderful, luxurious hand feel. HP Baryte satin feels a bit flimsier, with a surface texture and gamut that are extremely similar to Hahnemuhle Photo rag pearl, rather than the quite different Photo rag baryta. Crane Museo silver rag, by contrast, has a nice heavy hand feel, and the darkest D-max I've been able to get from the Z3100, but I dislike its surface texture, which is a little reminiscent of photo rag pearl, but with too much "machine made" regularity.

Finally, there's the issue of OBA's (optical brightening agents). Crane silver rag and Hahnemuhle photo rag pearl don't use any, so you won't see your favorite prints shifting color over time. I believe Photo rag baryta doesn't use any, but I'm not sure about that. Harman gloss FB AI and Epson exhibition fiber use a lot, which accounts for their intensely bright paper white.

I think the best approach is to make test prints on a range of candidate papers, and decide which paper, or handful of papers, work best with your images. Then stop messing around and print your work. It's too easy to get bogged down with endless testing and perpetually searching for a mythical perfect paper. "Good enough" is, well, good enough.
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rdonson

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Widest Gamut Luster paper for Z3100?
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2008, 11:15:04 am »

Xanthor,

I use the HP Professional High-Gloss Contract Proofing Paper for sports posters and its been a big hit.  I'm generally printing 18x24 on it.  Its a popular size.  One thing that's very nice about this product is that I can get a 100' 24" roll for $60.  It fits the poster category perfectly for me.
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Regards,
Ron

Xanthor

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Widest Gamut Luster paper for Z3100?
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2008, 03:15:38 pm »

Quote from: rdonson
Xanthor,

I use the HP Professional High-Gloss Contract Proofing Paper for sports posters and its been a big hit.  I'm generally printing 18x24 on it.  Its a popular size.  One thing that's very nice about this product is that I can get a 100' 24" roll for $60.  It fits the poster category perfectly for me.

I agree completely.  Its perfect poster paper ... well considering HP doesnt really provide "poster paper".   I have done alot of 24x36 on it ... all kinds of things from NASA Photos to landscape scenery's, a few facial close up's, and even a mosiac.  I almost got to working with some local sports photograpers who also liked it.  So far no complaints.  I like it because it tends to want to crimp less than photo paper.
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