looking ahead: Mamiya RZ or Contax

[citizenk]

Hi all
I've been lurking into this forum for a couple of months now and I'm starting to think to what may be my next move in terms of gear. At the moment I am using a Canon 20D (ouch!) and I shoot mainly alternative fashion portraits. Fot what I've seen I understand that in the next months probably I will move to a 5D to have full frame but in the medium term I'll try to go MF.

since I also have the need to get back a film camera, I'm trying to understand what may be the best option to have a film camera today and a good setup for a digital back tomorrow.

actually my choices fall between the RZ (wich I already owned and loved, this has been definitely my favorite camera) and the contax 645 (wich seems to be a better choice in terms of cropping factor).

I'd love to hear from you any pros and cons about these two choices in terms of digital back use, and also wich model of the rz should I eventually look for  (normal, II or IID)

thanks in advance
Fabio

www.clockwork-pictures.com

[ixpressraf]

Hi Fabio,
These are both wonderfull camera's and i own both. In studio with a non moving camera mounted on a tripod the mamiya RZ is an unbeatable camera when using a one shot back. However for daily normal use, on location, studio, aereal shots etc.... the Contax is the better choice. It has wonderfull lenses, good ergonomy and is affordable. I think interest in the contax is somehow lower then a couple of years ago since there is no respons to some contax 645 accessories i have put on sale.
It is up to you to decide for what you intend to use the camera, an RZ can be handheld for some minutes but .......

[citizenk]

Hi Fabio,
These are both wonderfull camera's and i own both. In studio with a non moving camera mounted on a tripod the mamiya RZ is an unbeatable camera when using a one shot back. However for daily normal use, on location, studio, aereal shots etc.... the Contax is the better choice. It has wonderfull lenses, good ergonomy and is affordable. I think interest in the contax is somehow lower then a couple of years ago since there is no respons to some contax 645 accessories i have put on sale.
It is up to you to decide for what you intend to use the camera, an RZ can be handheld for some minutes but .......
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216406\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

thanks for your reply!
since you are using the rz, wich back are you using on it? wich cropping factor you have? and wich model of rz is more suitable for db use?
thanks again
FAbio

[clawery]

The standard RZ and RZ Pro II need an adapter plate and a few extra cables vs the RZ Pro IID that only needs the plate.  The lens factor will depend on which DB you want to put on the RZ.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National  Atlanta / Miami
404-234-5195 | Cell  
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thanks for your reply!
since you are using the rz, wich back are you using on it? wich cropping factor you have? and wich model of rz is more suitable for db use?
thanks again
FAbio
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216441\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Grayhand]

I use a RZ Pro II with a P45 back.
I am very pleased with this combination and the camera in its self and the lenses, it was love at first sight    
I wonder what other system can give you the same quality for the price today of a RZ-system?

But I dont think it is a question of just using one camera. If You are shoting fashion portraits you will nead also a modern DSLR for low light/hig speed shootings.

The biggest difference for my in the studio is the fact that with the RZ speed drops to maby 50-30% of "normal" speed. If i try shooting in my normal pace with some of my "high speed models" I will run in to truble with sync error and double exposure on the DB. The best way i think is to use the motorwinder for the camera. That gives the DB time to save each photo. But it can be frustraiting some time that it feels a bit slow compare to what I is used to from the 1Ds II.

The other big differens for me is that the P45 is like a black hole, it consumes an incredible amount of light. I have to overlight a set compared to what I am used to and then bring the level down in post to avoid to mutch noise in the shadows. Even at ISO 200 you will find a lot of nois if your light levels is a bit low.

If you have lots of light you can of course handheld the camera if your speed is short enough. With the wlf it works very well.

But the quality when you do every thing right is the reward for your suffering with the RZ  

I have no experince with the contax 645 system.

I hope this give you some idea of my experience whit this system.

Ray

[RobertJ]

Question for Chris Lawery and/or anyone using the RZ/II non-D body with backs:

I'm assuming the guys with Phase One backs and the regular RZ/II bodies are using a Hasselblad V mount back with the Phase One LightPhase adapter and cables.  Is this correct?

My question is, how big is the square opening on that adapter?  Will that adapter work with a Hasselblad V mount P65+ back? (is the opening on the adapter large enough for the full-frame sensor on the P65+?)

[sid_v]

Question for Chris Lawery and/or anyone using the RZ/II non-D body with backs:

I'm assuming the guys with Phase One backs and the regular RZ/II bodies are using a Hasselblad V mount back with the Phase One LightPhase adapter and cables.  Is this correct?

My question is, how big is the square opening on that adapter?  Will that adapter work with a Hasselblad V mount P65+ back? (is the opening on the adapter large enough for the full-frame sensor on the P65+?)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216864\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Its a 6x6 opening, yeah so p65 can be easily mounted.

[RobertJ]

That's what I thought, thanks.

[James R Russell]

Hi Fabio,
These are both wonderfull camera's and i own both. In studio with a non moving camera mounted on a tripod the mamiya RZ is an unbeatable camera when using a one shot back. However for daily normal use, on location, studio, aereal shots etc.... the Contax is the better choice. It has wonderfull lenses, good ergonomy and is affordable. I think interest in the contax is somehow lower then a couple of years ago since there is no respons to some contax 645 accessories i have put on sale.
It is up to you to decide for what you intend to use the camera, an RZ can be handheld for some minutes but .......
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216406\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Though I haven't used an HY6 or a AFI, the contax is a rock.  My bodies and backs are just dead on solid and except for a 100mm lens I can't think of much more i would want.  Maybe 250th of a second sync, but that's it.

They just never stop working, rarely if ever jam (as long as they're kept clean) and the lenses are sharp and accurate.

It's really the deal of the century and even better now that more and more come on the market daily.

I probably have a billion images shot with the Contax and never a failure other than an assitant sticking a thumb through a shutter.

This was shot with a contax.





JR

[evgeny]

James, superb images!

Do you process images in Photoshop?
Which lenses did you use for these?

[James R Russell]

James, superb images!

Do you process images in Photoshop?
Which lenses did you use for these?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216920\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

man in chair- Hartblei 45mm ts- aptus 22
woman on sofa, Hartblei  45mm ts- aptus 22
tennis player, contax 80mm - phase p30+
Assafa Powell, contax 35mm, aptus 22
man in stream, contax 80mm, phase p30
woman-boy, contax 80mm, kodak epr 64asa film

everything is processed in different raw convertors, usually Raw Developer, (the Aptus images in photoshop cs acr) and then goes to photoshop for finish.



JR

[evgeny]

Thank!

[pss]

first: if you go with mamiya...only get the RZIID..you don't want to deal with cables...you will regret it if you don't.....
what speaks for mamiya: RZ and 645 with one back....tons of lenses, great system, studio camera with WLF and a fast AF 645 system....proven....rentals anywhere....
the contax cannot compete with any of that.....but! the contax lenses are a very good reason to go with contax.....
if you have ever worked with the RZ and you are comfortable with it....great, if you haven't...it is big and heavy and if you are used to a 5D, you will feel like being set back to the stone ages....you might feel like that with either system actually...
as usual: check them both out....mamiya can be rented anywhere, contax probably harder to find....

the question should really be mamiya 645 or contax, because if you need the RZ, the contax won't do it for you anyway......

[James R Russell]

first: if you go with mamiya...only get the RZIID..you don't want to deal with cables...you will regret it if you don't.....
what speaks for mamiya: RZ and 645 with one back....tons of lenses, great system, studio camera with WLF and a fast AF 645 system....proven....rentals anywhere....
the contax cannot compete with any of that.....but! the contax lenses are a very good reason to go with contax.....
if you have ever worked with the RZ and you are comfortable with it....great, if you haven't...it is big and heavy and if you are used to a 5D, you will feel like being set back to the stone ages....you might feel like that with either system actually...
as usual: check them both out....mamiya can be rented anywhere, contax probably harder to find....

the question should really be mamiya 645 or contax, because if you need the RZ, the contax won't do it for you anyway......
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217006\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I agree with the above.  I wouldn't suggest the contax unless you had it already and liked it, or money was an issue and you needed a camera with a digital interface at a bargain price.

I dig the contax, but it's days will be numbered.  Maybe not soon, maybe sooner than I thinkl because as far as I know nobody is going to be making any new lenses, or finders or anything.  Also repairs get slower by the year so long term, it may not be a wise choice.

The RZ I can somewhat understand, God knows the people that love them, really do love that camera, but it's still a 6x7 camera with a little 645 or smaller frame poking through that huge ground glass and it wasn't designed for what a lot of people use it for now with a digital back.

As we all know it's just a matter of what works for you and even as important as working, what you want to work with.  We all get emotionally hooked up with a lot of our equipment. Photography is an emotional process so I can understand that  there are Nikon people, Sinar people, Lecia people, Hasselblad people, etc.

You'll know the right camera when you find it.

JR

[NBP]

As we all know it's just a matter of what works for you and even as important as working, what you want to work with.  We all get emotionally hooked up with a lot of our equipment.

You'll know the right camera when you find it.

JR

100% agree.

I use the RZ primarily as I'm tabletop studio based. I used it for years before digi and it's near as damn it perfect for my work in that area.
I also do a fair bit of landscape, and although the RZ is rather impractical for lugging around out & about, it's ultimately worth it because I work in a very particular way with it.  
I've tried more practical [for location] systems such as the AFD's,  but have found that they do not fit with my method  - I simply do not take the same pictures and have come back with [personally] disappointing results.

Having said that, my advice for someone who is looking to portraiture, would certainly lean toward trying a 645 system at first, to be honest.

[Hägar the horrible]

I dropped my Contax some time ago because there was no way I could rent a DB for it close by.

[eronald]

I dig the contax, but it's days will be numbered.  Maybe not soon, maybe sooner than I thinkl because as far as I know nobody is going to be making any new lenses, or finders or anything.  Also repairs get slower by the year so long term, it may not be a wise choice.

You'll know the right camera when you find it.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217070\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm seriously thinking of converting my P45+ to Contax - I'm stuck with the back, and the Mamiya is no fun - for me.  Somehow, I think the fun factor is part of making the images, and having a camera that is no fun dampens the quality of the imagery. As Phase cannot be used on any new camera except Mamiya, Contax seems a reasonable way to go. The only alternative would be H2 (and the excellent 100mm F2.2).

Edmund

[tho_mas]

Contax seems a reasonable way to go.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217261\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, why not?! As long as there are cameras and lenses around and you buy some things double as backup and as long as there are workshops and technicians that know the Contax 645 I think that's fine. As you are located in France... Germany is not far away...
There is certainly no short-dated support but if this is not essential to you the Contax System is fabulous.
Solely some original accessories are hard to find.

The only alternative would be H2 (and the excellent 100mm F2.2).[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217261\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Apo Macro Planar 4/120 is the bomb in the Contax line from my point of view. f4 and a bit longer as the 100mm and no AF... but just a perfect lens...

[evgeny]

I like my Contax 645 glass. The camera operates similar to Nikon, but haven't digital screens and menus/settings, which is a really missed feature comparing to modern Nikon machines!

I considered Mamiya before I went to Contax, but I don't like the bulk and the fact that RZ glass is nothing exceptional. I believe Contax will be available on eBay for approx 10 years, which is a long enough to consider it as a good investment, for less money than H1/H2, by the way.

[revaaron]

I'm having this same internal debate, except with the Mamiya 645AFDII and the Contax 645. I shoot with all nikon gear, some kodak, and rarely canon. 99% of my work is done with the Nikon D3.  But after scanning in a few 100 slides, I've got the film bug.

I've been going out with the rolleicord (est. 1951) and am really enjoying the experience. But I'm borrowing this camera. I want to get my own 645 and possibly troll ebay and eventually get a db for it.  after looking, I'm getting worried that if I get a contax, there wont be db for it.  I'm also worried about if I get a mamiya, i will sorely miss the waste shooting since the prism doesn't come off. I'm really leaning towards the Contax cause everyone's reviews of it are glowing.

I really just want to get 1 MF camera that I can use and never have to ever buy another one ever again.  With digital, in 7 years, I've bought D100 x2, D70, D2H, D2X, D3, and a kodak SLR/n.

advice?