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Author Topic: Portrait of a Photographer  (Read 14880 times)

Imaginara

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Portrait of a Photographer
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2008, 10:23:03 am »

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I sure like to see some pictures you have produced  Rob. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216006\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well the judging of Rob's pictures would be subject to the same thing as Rob's judgement and opinion of LaChapelles work, your personal opinion =) Thats the nice thing with opinions, everyone has one and everyone is entitled to their own =)

Having said that, i wanna see Rob's work anyway regardless of if he thinks LaChapelle is a newbie or not

(Me personally have a passion for surrealism and modern art and really like LaChapelle's work =)
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Rob C

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« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2008, 11:30:40 am »

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It says more about you than LaChapelle, when you ( seriously??? ) rate him
lower than average.
One thing is not to like his kind of pictures, another is to not see that he has
a great eye and execute his vision on a high level.

It is so easy too say, when looking at great photographers pictures, "I could have done that and
even better". The big difference is that they had the vision and skills to do it.

I sure like to see some pictures you have produced  Rob. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216006\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]




Of course I´m being tongue-in-cheek to a certain extent, but nonetheless, I do not rate the man as a great photographer. I have no doubts about his succes being great, though, but the two are different and quite separate things.

I do not see that he has a great eye at all: I think his use of colour is awful; to call it brash would, in my opinion, be understatement. Vulgar, perhaps, is closer. Further, how can he even claim the colour to be his? How can one know - with a team of specialists behind the hat, who does what?

Yes, it is very easy to look at great photographers´pictures and say yes, I could have done that. I tend to look at such pictures and say: I wish I´d done that. That is exactly how I reacted to one of Frank´s images on the MF Slide Show, the one with the beautifully backlit woman´s neck and breasts, her chin going up into the air. If this remark was aimed at me, or simply a generalisation I can´t tell; if aimed at myself, then it is misplaced. I openly and unreservedly admire many photographers and only wish that I had their eye. If you read much of what I write here, then you might have a sense of boredom with the number of times I have honoured Sarah Moon, Sam Haskins, Hans Feurer and some few others.

My own work? You don´t live too far from Spain - should you be coming down Mallorca way, let me know when and I would be very happy to show you what I have available - not even any pressure to buy!

Rob C

Rob C

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« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2008, 11:35:30 am »

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Well the judging of Rob's pictures would be subject to the same thing as Rob's judgement and opinion of LaChapelles work, your personal opinion =) Thats the nice thing with opinions, everyone has one and everyone is entitled to their own =)

Having said that, i wanna see Rob's work anyway regardless of if he thinks LaChapelle is a newbie or not

(Me personally have a passion for surrealism and modern art and really like LaChapelle's work =)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216008\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]





I don´t think he´s a newbie - been around much longer than that, he has!

Anyway, regarding my pics: I extend to you the same opportunity as I did just now to Willow Photography, but you might be wasting you time - I don´t dig surrealism or much modern art. But hell, perhaps that´s what I´ve been doing all along without knowing it.

Rob C

samuel_js

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« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2008, 07:14:17 am »

well, I like his work a lot, really.

Not because I work with the same kind of photography at all or because evey image toch me in any way. But because, with every picture, he's showing us his own personal fight agains the extremely moral world we live in. He's screaming, controversially in every shot. And with an impresive high level collection of technichal skills.

To me that's ART.

He's an artist with a well defined vision of what he wants to achieve, and does it in a very nice way imo.


/Samuel
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Rob C

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« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2008, 05:00:43 pm »

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But because, with every picture, he's showing us his own personal fight agains the extremely moral world we live in. He's screaming, controversially in every shot. .
/Samuel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216215\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]




Samuel

I don´t recognize the ´moral´ world you speak of - I do, however see the politically correct one and it makes me sick. Why? Because underlying almost everything that the PC people make their own is an even greater hypocrisy: they seek the remotest chance of an unintentional hurt and then really turn it into the hurt it was never intended to be. That, to me, makes them worse than the thing they pretend to correct.

I have no idea if you see any fashion magazines. If you do, you will find more sex and exposure in magazines intended for female consumption than anywhere else short of top-shelf junk. In those fashion pages, there are many really skilled photographers flying in the face of the faux morality I think you write about. Mr LaC is not, for me, one of the better or brighter exponents of the skill. Part of the problem, again for me, is the idea of a team behind, beside and probably in front of him. How can such a system, drawing as it must upon a variety of external talents, allow an individual to claim the credit? Trick-photography indeed.

Yes, he screams very loudly, as you write.

Should you be interested, I can post a list of sites where far greater talents are on display.

Rob C

jing q

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« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2008, 11:08:45 pm »

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Part of the problem, again for me, is the idea of a team behind, beside and probably in front of him. How can such a system, drawing as it must upon a variety of external talents, allow an individual to claim the credit? Trick-photography indeed.

Yes, he screams very loudly, as you write.

Should you be interested, I can post a list of sites where far greater talents are on display.

Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216306\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm going to repeat myself:
Like a film director perhaps?
It's a team effort, but Lachapelle has the vision.
All the specialists in the world combined can't make a great picture without a great director.
You may think there's greater talent around. But to not even acknowledge his capabilities shows really poorly upon yourself.
It's irritating to see other photographers who have proven their chops over and over again get dissed like this.
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Frank Doorhof

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« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2008, 03:22:59 am »

Whatever people say, to perform over and over again like Lachapelle does is setting him apart.
It's indeed HIS vision.
I don't think he is overly shouting on the video, remember this is NOT a TFP session for fun, the talent often gives you 4-5 minutes and in that time and ONLY THAT TIME you have to have the killer shot, that IS pressure.
So if someone in your team is not paying attention or screwing up, you can get a bit more loud than normally, remember music is often blasting through the studio.

As he explained after the shoot "now I have to take everyone out to diner to makeup".

I'm a big fan of Lachapelle so maybe I'm biased, I have seen a LOT of very talented photographers online but never someone with the ammount of hits that Lachapelle has.

Every good photographer can make 1-10-20-30 great shots but continue this for hunderds (just check his books and website) and you are deserving a place in history
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Tim Lüdin

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« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2008, 04:01:34 am »

Yeah Frank you nailed it.
Lachapelle is one of the greatest portrait and fashion photographers of our time, period.
You can like his work or not. It's all his vision.
On this level of the game many things come in to play. It's not just about taking a picture.
It's your persona, your socialize skills, your fashion awareness, who you know, on what party you have been lately, knowing the right makeup artists and stylists etc.

You almost have to be a movie director to pull those kinda shoots of. At the end you take a picture but the photocamera is just the capture device for your vision.
I'm sure Lachapelle doesn't give a shit about cameras as we do. He's an artist and not a photographer at the first place.
Give me the money and the talent and I will be able the capture the same picture, but only technicaly. All the other things come in to play first and that's the hard part.

Dont get me wrong. I also love cameras and new tools but more and more I realize that knowing  the tools is important but not as important as your vision and social skills.

Michel Comte is a good example. I had the chance to work on his set a few years ago.
Technicaly he's not half as good as most of the folks here. But his social skills are superb. He always gets the shots. He sees stuff that most people dont. He's not afraid to push famous actors around till he gets the shot and the actors love him for that.
That's the kinda stuff that sets him apart from the rest of us. Guess what, he also doesn't give a shit about technical stuff. He just has a vision.

You have to be a great communicator first, then the great pictures will follow.

Just some thoughts.
Tim
« Last Edit: August 21, 2008, 09:29:13 am by Tim Lüdin »
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terence_patrick

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« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2008, 11:53:51 am »

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Part of the problem, again for me, is the idea of a team behind, beside and probably in front of him. How can such a system, drawing as it must upon a variety of external talents, allow an individual to claim the credit? Trick-photography indeed.


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216306\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You've basically pissed on every advertising and commercial photographer on the planet with that statement. I have no idea what sort of work you produce (maybe landscape?), but if a job came for me today where I'd personally have to answer all the phone calls, reply to the emails, pick up gear, set up gear, do the makeup/hair/manicure for talent, steam the clothes then sort out the outfits, cook the food for the kraft services table, drive the RV for base camp, pick up the talent, THEN actually do the photoshoot, break down the gear, load it up into the van, return it, return all the wardrobe, drop the talent off, collect the invoices, cut the checks, then drop them off at the post office, and finally get to sit down to do the editing, retouching, and converting of files, well, I'd be so f'ing exhausted by the end of the week I'd probably shoot myself. This sort of work is a massive team effort that is kicked off by the photographer's vision. Sure everyone plays a key role, but at the start of the day, everyone is looking at the photographer asking, "So what do you want me to do?" Heck, I'm actually on the conservative side of describing the amount of work and production a shoot on the level of LaChapelle's is.

The best part of this whole argument is that I don't even like the guy, but I very much respect his work and ability to execute his ideas while having to deal with publicists, agents, etc...
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gwhitf

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« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2008, 12:39:51 pm »

i remember watching that LaChapelle video on Egg, on public TV, years ago. There was a scene with his assistant. I wonder if this is the same guy:

http://www.pdnpulse.com/2008/08/remembering-pho.html

They seem to look very similar.
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bcooter

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« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2008, 01:00:45 pm »

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You've basically pissed on every advertising and commercial photographer on the planet with that statement


The best part of this whole argument is that I don't even like the guy, but I very much respect his work and ability to execute his ideas while having to deal with publicists, agents, etc...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216477\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


unless your are out  working hard the comments are just that comments.

Mr. RobC wants a time where it was just him his calendar girls and a paycheck.  it doesn't work that way now and it didn't work that way in the past.

it must have just worked that way for Mr. RobC who can not even flatbed scan one of his photographs and put himself on the front lines.

if you are not capable of managing a crew your career your post production then you are just a commodity and commodities are always replaced by the lowest bid.

like Mr. Chappell or dont like Mr. Chappell his work is out there for the world to see

Mr. Chapell does not know Mr. C's name, but Mr. C knows of Mr. Chappell.

that should explain it all.

it probably explains why Mr. RobC does not like Mr. Chappell.
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Rob C

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« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2008, 04:54:01 pm »

Quote from: bcooter,Aug 21 2008, 05:00 PM
unless your are out  working hard the comments are just that comments.

.

it probably explains why Mr. RobC does not like Mr. Chappell.
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[

/quote]


Jesus Cooter, at least get his name right! Or are you just taking part in what you hope might become another bar-room brawl like the one a few clicks away?

Also, don´t forget what this thread was created to do: discuss. Seems to me it´s you doing the screaming and precious little discussing.

It bores to have to repeat myself, but perhaps you have a short memory. As I explained months ago to another person on LuLa saying much the same as yourself, I do not post on the web for all manner of reasons, the principal one being a matter of model releases, client permissions and the fact that I feel no need nor wish to have my work on your computer.

Actually, you are quite wrong about Rob C and his girls working on their own: it was like that, and it did work like that and the pay check was nice then too; that´s exactly how it was, but then, how could you possibly know? You see, there was a golden age in photography and you just missed it.

Rob C

Justinr

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« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2008, 06:02:06 pm »

Picking up on the point of showings ones work online I do rather enjoy visiting the sites of those who post here. Fora can be rather two dimensional creatures and it is only human nature to try and construct a picture of the individuals from the words they write and phrases they employ. Being able to see their work puts a great deal more flesh on the bones as well as giving some indication of the weight that should be attached to their opinion. There is some quite wonderful work produced by the members here, Jing q's 'Crossings' for instance, but there are some very average items as well. No names, no pack drill, but one very technical fellow elsewhere boasted about the virtues of his images that would be draw nothing but very polite and helpful comments down at the local camera club. But by jingo he'd hit upon a formula that costed each pixel. Nothing wrong in this BTW, we must each seek from photography that which we find most rewarding.

There is also an element of inverse publicity in that if you are well known and respected then you have no need to draw further attention to yourself, but further down the ladder you are then the louder you need to shout to be noticed. I believe that there is an annual guide to Hollywood actors in which those who are famous merely list their agents number whilst the B movie stars who have got a penny or two together splash out on full page adverts with biography and so on. Aspiring newbies struggle along with as many lines as their finances allow. Is it really the same principle being applied here?

Justin.
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Frank Doorhof

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« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2008, 02:09:53 am »

Or some people don't need the exposure but they just love to share, ever thought about that ?
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Justinr

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« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2008, 05:12:48 am »

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Or some people don't need the exposure but they just love to share, ever thought about that ?
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Not that particular angle I must admit but there are plenty more besides. Do we all have the interest or resources in assembling or commissioning a site for instance, is the  investment of resources worth it anyway? Is the net the best way to display ones work, Is it a worthwhile marketing tool or a vanity trip?

A few years back just having a site, and more importantly, being seen to have one was justification alone. Nowdays I'm not sure that this is as valid as the novelty has worn off and users are looking to the web as just another information resource rather than a wondrous creation in its own right.

Justin.
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Toby1014

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« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2008, 06:49:39 am »

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Should you be interested, I can post a list of sites where far greater talents are on display.

Rob C

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216306\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Dear Rob

Please do post the list of sites, I would be very interested.

Thanks

T
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Rob C

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« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2008, 02:09:53 pm »

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Dear Rob

Please do post the list of sites, I would be very interested.

Thanks

T
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



My pleasure, and, I´m sure, yours to be! There are really so many that I love and admire, but this lot should keep you busy for a while.


[a href=\"http://www.brunobisang.com]http://www.brunobisang.com[/url]
http://www.marekandassociates.com
http://www.juliainmeijer.com
http://www.lundlund.com
http://www.artpartner.com
http://www.waclawwantuch.com
http://www.bitesnich.com
http://www.managementartists.com
http://www.gianfrancomeza.com
http://www.haskins.com
http://www.modelpix.com
http://www.pirellical.com/thecal/home.html
http://www.farrokhchothia.com
http://www.russelljames.com
http://www.wibagency.com         (this, with my favourite: Hans Feurer)
http://www.santedorazio.com


If you have trouble with any, tell me which one and I shall try again - my eyes go walkabout with this monitor. With anything, probably.

Rob C
« Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 02:11:48 pm by Rob C »
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Toby1014

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« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2008, 02:44:23 pm »

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My pleasure, and, I´m sure, yours to be! There are really so many that I love and admire, but this lot should keep you busy for a while.

Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216690\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Rob

Thanks a lot, it is exiting to encounter photographers that I was not aware of.

I don’t care if you post images or not, you certainly know your way around photography.

I am on a very slow line at this moment, and have not seen all the links, but it seems to be in a commercial / fashion genre - I am more an art photography guy, do you have any exiting links  (and please not to photographers who call them self fine art photographers).


Cheers

T
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Rob C

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« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2008, 02:47:41 pm »

Okay, folks, I started this little thread in the hope of some good, deep insight into creative thinking, how one person sees it in the example of a famous reputation and how another thinks something totally else.

In the end, this proved a somewhat naïve proposition on my part and perhaps at my age I should have known better. Nevertheless, some clear conclusions can be drwn, and from my perspective, here they are.

1.  It is difficult to distinguish between celebrity and talent, the former making the latter seem a given, rightly or wrongly.

2.  The concept of photographer as unique, singular talented worker/artist no longer has validity, at least in the commercial sector, which is where the subject of the thread resides.

3.  The concept of photographer as part of a successful group effort is considered enough to make such a photographer´s name, the rest of the troupe not really needing any credit whilst the photographer may take all the glory unto himself.

4. There is a school of thought that believes that success comes from knowing the right people, going to the right parties, being a social animal; in effect, that social grace and/or networking comes before photographic excellence. This might not be a new phenomenon.

5. There is an element of hero worship at play, strong enough to blind the worshipper´s eye to anything less than equal reverence for the hero. Indeed, Nikon v. Canon might be thought a similar case, with the humanity removed from the equation, but the aggression still there.

The purpose of the thread has, as far as the originator is concerned, run its course.

Rob C

Rob C

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« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2008, 02:56:33 pm »

Quote
Rob

Thanks a lot, it is exiting to encounter photographers that I was not aware of.

I don’t care if you post images or not, you certainly know your way around photography.

I am on a very slow line at this moment, and have not seen all the links, but it seems to be in a commercial / fashion genre - I am more an art photography guy, do you have any exiting links  (and please not to photographers who call them self fine art photographers).
Cheers

T
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216704\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



Toby, hi.

Your line might be slow, but my monitor is making vaguely wavey lines at the bottom of the screen so I don´t know how much longer I shall be able to carry on either. I just hope it´s the effect of poor electrical supply and not the death rattles of an old Diamondtron!

Yes, I do have some links to other art-oriented sites, but I have always tended to feel that many fashion people are really artists just working in fashion to support the habit. No dreadful pun intended here. I suppose that after working in the business for longer than most posters here have probably been alive, I damn well should know my way around this world, but thanks, anyway.

Have not the time right now, but promise to find and forward the sites for you.

Rob C
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